I may be testing some form of plasma lighting in the future but I've heard mixed things.
Induction might be interesting but I've seen nothing concrete there either...
Air-cooled HID hood contain their own reflectors and changing a bulb every so often is really not as big of a deal as you might think. You would want 1 6"-8" ice box per HID hood plus any extras that you may need to control ambient but those are one time purchases and the money you save may more than pay for them. I don't think the temp differentials are that much different if you have good circulation and cooling.
10-20% would be pushing it and probably less if your running higher w/sqft numbers with properly sized lights for the used area. Mr. Rosenthal is an *icon* but his data may be out of date. When was his book last updated?
YMMV...
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:23 pm
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
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Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:25 pm
2010 is the latest edition. I couldn't find any peer reviewed literature on his claims.
Well since 3x12 will fit perfectly anyway I wouldn't need them.
To recap, if I go
2x 1000W HID, I need:
2x icebox 6"
2x can-fan 6"
2x ballasts
2x reflectors
4x bulbs (2 for veg, 2 for bloom?)
4x SS800, I need:
4x SS800 fixtures
plus whatever else I need to control ambient temp.
All I have to do now is run a simple Excel sheet and compare the total price for each option.
Well since 3x12 will fit perfectly anyway I wouldn't need them.
To recap, if I go
2x 1000W HID, I need:
2x icebox 6"
2x can-fan 6"
2x ballasts
2x reflectors
4x bulbs (2 for veg, 2 for bloom?)
4x SS800, I need:
4x SS800 fixtures
plus whatever else I need to control ambient temp.
All I have to do now is run a simple Excel sheet and compare the total price for each option.
- FCGFrank
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- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:02 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:29 pm
2010 is pretty recent but I still doubt you'd see that much increase in yield if you're already running over 68w/sqft...
I could be wrong so try it if you want but I just don't see it...
I could be wrong so try it if you want but I just don't see it...
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:37 pm
2 x 1000w:
2 x 6-8" icebox
2 x ballasts
2 x hoods
1 x 6"HO or 8" axial fan
2 x HPS bulbs to be used for both veg and flower.
(hoods, ballasts and 1st bulb often sold as a package)
You can get the hood/ballast/bulb packages for under 300 (each) for budget models or 400+ for higher end models
The fan is about 200-ish.
The iceboxes are about 200 each.
Replacement bulbs go for 40 - 100+ and you can replace them every 4-6 months..assuming 8 week flowering cycles.
2 x 6-8" icebox
2 x ballasts
2 x hoods
1 x 6"HO or 8" axial fan
2 x HPS bulbs to be used for both veg and flower.
(hoods, ballasts and 1st bulb often sold as a package)
You can get the hood/ballast/bulb packages for under 300 (each) for budget models or 400+ for higher end models
The fan is about 200-ish.
The iceboxes are about 200 each.
Replacement bulbs go for 40 - 100+ and you can replace them every 4-6 months..assuming 8 week flowering cycles.
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:44 pm
SisterMaryElephant wrote:You can get the hood/ballast/bulb packages for under 300 (each) for budget models or 400+ for higher end models
The fan is about 200-ish.
The iceboxes are about 200 each.
Replacement bulbs go for 40 - 100+ and you can replace them every 4-6 months..assuming 8 week flowering cycles.
Assuming a high-end model
400+200+200 = 800$ per HID
1600$ total
versus 5600$ for 4xSS800.
There is a 4000$ differential.
Ok.
That is MASSIVE.
Ed's book says HPS600w are more efficient than 1000w HID though, so maybe 4x 600w HPS is a better choice then?
Even if I go with 4x600W the savings are still astronomical.
I see what you meant now. For 4000$ I suddenly find myself much more open to the minor cons of using HPS
Last edited by FCGFrank on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:57 pm
1 x 6" HO axial fan will cool 2 x 1000w hoods but an 8" would give you power to spare for odor control or ambient cooling. You don't need a 6" fan for each light....
If you want high end HPS ballasts look at the Solis Tek line, they even have a remote.
Also, you *could* use MH bulbs for veg and swap them out, if you want, but a lot of commercial growers veg with HPS because it puts out more lumens. You'll replace a single HPS bulb more often due to increased usage/hours...
You could even go with a 4x12 with 3 x 1000w HPS if you like that 12' length...
If you want high end HPS ballasts look at the Solis Tek line, they even have a remote.
Also, you *could* use MH bulbs for veg and swap them out, if you want, but a lot of commercial growers veg with HPS because it puts out more lumens. You'll replace a single HPS bulb more often due to increased usage/hours...
You could even go with a 4x12 with 3 x 1000w HPS if you like that 12' length...
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:58 pm
This?
The grower house packages are priced weirdly
A 600W package is 500 and a 1000w package is 537$. Like wow?
Eff that, I'm going with three 1000w in a 3x12.
The grower house packages are priced weirdly
A 600W package is 500 and a 1000w package is 537$. Like wow?
Eff that, I'm going with three 1000w in a 3x12.
Last edited by FCGFrank on Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- FCGFrank
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Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:01 pm
We don't post links here, we don't want to encourage spammers...
Check out the Matrix model of the Solis Tek
4x12 with 3 x 1000w would be better and, yes, the price difference between 600w and 1000w isn't much.
Check out the Matrix model of the Solis Tek
4x12 with 3 x 1000w would be better and, yes, the price difference between 600w and 1000w isn't much.
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:04 pm
Should I still scrog with 3x 1000w?
Also, when you finish your sentences with ..., does it mean something? You do it a lot, I was wondering if there's a hidden meaning or if it's a stylistic decision 
Also, when you finish your sentences with ..., does it mean something?
You do it a lot, I was wondering if there's a hidden meaning or if it's a stylistic decision - FCGFrank
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:02 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:08 pm
A lot of people do SCROG with big lights, the 600w (LED or HID) would be more efficient but you seem to like a little overkill.
With the power of the bigger light you could try larger plants and if you're not going to SCROG you can have separate veg/ flower areas for the perpetual harvests. It really is up to you.
Mostly stylistic...
With the power of the bigger light you could try larger plants and if you're not going to SCROG you can have separate veg/ flower areas for the perpetual harvests. It really is up to you.
Mostly stylistic...
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
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