Nute burning is such a frequent problem in the grow journals I read I'd rather avoid it
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:44 pm
I haven't fed them yet at day 13... are they ready for a 1/4 strength feeding?
Nute burning is such a frequent problem in the grow journals I read I'd rather avoid it
Nute burning is such a frequent problem in the grow journals I read I'd rather avoid it
- FCGFrank
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:02 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:01 pm
I think you misunderstand the comparison and that may be partly due to some of the LED myths that I mentioned.
One of the big myths is that a smaller LED can yield as much as a much larger HID, usually based on PAR measurements not on actual grows. A SS800w has 160 5w diodes but it only consumes 620w of power which means that it's really a 620w light and that light is about the same (yield/output) as a 600w HID.
Another big myth is that LED doesn't put out heat, when you run large LED lights you'll still need ventilation and cooling. Perhaps much less than an uncooled HID but not much less than an air-cooled HID.
Another LED myth is that LED only uses spectra that plants use and that HID uses spectra that plants do not. If that were so every LED would use the same spectrum and they would yield more. It wasn't that long ago that we thought that plants didn't use green light but they do, just not as efficiently as as they absorb other spectra. Our understanding of what plants can and do use has changed over the years but PAR measurements do not change which leads me to believe that PAR is more for marketing than useful comparison of different types of lighting. If a 300-700w light has as much or more PAR than a 1000w HID, then why don't they yield as much...if PAR is an accurate comparison?
One of the big myths is that a smaller LED can yield as much as a much larger HID, usually based on PAR measurements not on actual grows. A SS800w has 160 5w diodes but it only consumes 620w of power which means that it's really a 620w light and that light is about the same (yield/output) as a 600w HID.
Another big myth is that LED doesn't put out heat, when you run large LED lights you'll still need ventilation and cooling. Perhaps much less than an uncooled HID but not much less than an air-cooled HID.
Another LED myth is that LED only uses spectra that plants use and that HID uses spectra that plants do not. If that were so every LED would use the same spectrum and they would yield more. It wasn't that long ago that we thought that plants didn't use green light but they do, just not as efficiently as as they absorb other spectra. Our understanding of what plants can and do use has changed over the years but PAR measurements do not change which leads me to believe that PAR is more for marketing than useful comparison of different types of lighting. If a 300-700w light has as much or more PAR than a 1000w HID, then why don't they yield as much...if PAR is an accurate comparison?
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:04 pm
Day 13 after breaking ground or day 13 from planting?
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:07 pm
Ahhhh thanks for clearing it up. The LED section in Ed's book is quite small, outdated and incomplete, so the user must turn to forums to get his data. We all know how reliable this can be. I've never taken a look at PAR measurements taken with a spectrorad for HID lights. Are there any out there?
This is day 13 from planting. Day 11 since they cracked open.
This is day 13 from planting. Day 11 since they cracked open.
Last edited by FCGFrank on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- FCGFrank
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:02 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:10 pm
I generally don't start feeding until the cotyledons begin to yellow or start to fall off. If you think they're close to that try the very first feeding at 1/8 strength. DWC and hydropinics in general is nice, imho, because problems show up quickly but they respond to adjustments quickly too...
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:13 pm
SisterMaryElephant wrote:I generally don't start feeding until the cotyledons begin to yellow or start to fall off. If you think they're close to that try the very first feeding at 1/8 strength. DWC and hydropinics in general is nice, imho, because problems show up quickly but they respond to adjustments quickly too...
Roger that.
Well I'm due for a tub drain on Sunday (I drain every Sunday for the routine... and because it takes 15 min to do it) so I'll hold off another 24h and give them a 1/8 feed as you suggested on Sunday with fresh RO water.
Is CalMg something I should add automatically or only if a problem demands it?
- FCGFrank
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:02 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:22 pm
I'd say as needed but other people might use it every time. Good nutrients shouldn't need extra calcium or magnesium but I wouldn't go crazy with young plants. I would suggest looking into mycorrhizae for root health though. It's not a nutrient, it's a beneficial fungus. Remember, growing is part science and part art, everyone does it a little differently.
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:40 pm
SisterMaryElephant wrote:I'd say as needed but other people might use it every time. Good nutrients shouldn't need extra calcium or magnesium but I wouldn't go crazy with young plants. I would suggest looking into mycorrhizae for root health though. It's not a nutrient, it's a beneficial fungus. Remember, growing is part science and part art, everyone does it a little differently.
I have some White Shark, but also Tarantula, Voodoo and Piranha, which I understand are all the same more or less (different bacteria packaged separately for the monies). I already inoculated the seedling, but haven't used any more white shark since. I'll be following the AN nute chart (except for the ridiculous doses...) so the voodoo, tarantula and piranha will make their way in there eventually too.
- FCGFrank
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:02 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:22 am
Those sound like name brands, mycorrhizae is the actual name of the fungi family and I'd use it for every bucket change once you get roots in the water. It helps prevent root rot which can happen in DWC style grows. Since you're also using a chiller it'll be less of an issue but the mycorrhizae still helps. YMMV...
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:34 am
Yeah all these brands are packaged myco (and more)
- FCGFrank
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:02 pm
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests