Yeah, nothing kills the pain, it just lessens it a bit. MMJ does allow me to use less morphine than without though.
Everything through the V.A. takes time, my surgery consult isn't until June.
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:23 pm
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
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Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:28 pm
Day 77
Two days back at 90F, they're thriving. They drink about 1 gallon a day.
I counted 47 top heads, plus however many have popped elsewhere along the branches.
Two days back at 90F, they're thriving. They drink about 1 gallon a day.
I counted 47 top heads, plus however many have popped elsewhere along the branches.
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- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:02 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:54 pm
I started shopping around for parts to build my enclosures.
We had established that I would be getting
Two 4x4 for flowering (each under 1000W HID)
One 4x4 for vegging (under my two SS400W?)
One 2x4 for clones
One 2x4 for mothers
One 2x4 for curing (my current tent will do just fine for that)
I'm putting all my plans on paper, and I'm also trying to minimize the cooling hardware.
My first question: what do I do with my SS400W? Are they enough to veg 8 plants in my 4x4?
What about the clones? I already have a 110w LED (the one I intended to use before I bought my SS400W) I intended to use the mothers, do you still recommend HPS for clones? Or T8HO?
I'm thinking I'll need one icebox per 1000w HID + one icebox to cool the rest of the enclosure (so two iceboxes per 4x4 flowering enclosure).
Ideally a single 1/2 hp chiller would be used for the flowering enclosures, and another 1/2 hp to cool everything else (vegging and cloning enclosures).
I definitely want to keep using my SS400W though. I gotta put that 1200$ to work!
We had established that I would be getting
Two 4x4 for flowering (each under 1000W HID)
One 4x4 for vegging (under my two SS400W?)
One 2x4 for clones
One 2x4 for mothers
One 2x4 for curing (my current tent will do just fine for that)
I'm putting all my plans on paper, and I'm also trying to minimize the cooling hardware.
My first question: what do I do with my SS400W? Are they enough to veg 8 plants in my 4x4?
What about the clones? I already have a 110w LED (the one I intended to use before I bought my SS400W) I intended to use the mothers, do you still recommend HPS for clones? Or T8HO?
I'm thinking I'll need one icebox per 1000w HID + one icebox to cool the rest of the enclosure (so two iceboxes per 4x4 flowering enclosure).
Ideally a single 1/2 hp chiller would be used for the flowering enclosures, and another 1/2 hp to cool everything else (vegging and cloning enclosures).
I definitely want to keep using my SS400W though. I gotta put that 1200$ to work!
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- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:02 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by Dustydirt » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:06 pm
Hey Frank.. Fluorescent is good for clones. The thing I've found is they dont like too much light, and it seems they prefer bluish spectrum. I think the cheaper UFO led lights are good for mothers, so you may be able to put your 110 w to use there. ymmv...
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Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:11 pm
Do you really need a 2x4 tent for one or two mother plants or for a handful of clones?
Back on page 33 I suggested:
"Here's how I'd do it based on the room size talk we had a few pages back:
8 plants - two 4x4 for flowering
8 plants - one 4x4 for vegging
8 plants - one 2x2 for clones
1 plant - one 2x2 for a mother
one 2x4 for drying/curing depending on how you plan to cure..."
...but if you stagger the two flower tents (4 or so weeks apart) you wouldn't need 8 clones at a time or you'd have room for clone failures at least.
A single SS400w (in veg mode) in a 4x4 tent would be under 15w/sqft which, to me, is a little light for veg. What are you going to do with the other SS, since you have two?
The 110w LED might be OK for clones in a 2x2 but not enough, imho, for 2x4. I'm not a fan of fluorescent lights but a LOT of people use them for clones so they do work and, as Dustydirt said, cuttings don't need much light to root. A small MH/HPS (24/0) for the mother(s) would ensure they stay in veg. Perhaps something like the SolarFlare 200w would be a good mother light too...
YMMV...
Back on page 33 I suggested:
"Here's how I'd do it based on the room size talk we had a few pages back:
8 plants - two 4x4 for flowering
8 plants - one 4x4 for vegging
8 plants - one 2x2 for clones
1 plant - one 2x2 for a mother
one 2x4 for drying/curing depending on how you plan to cure..."
...but if you stagger the two flower tents (4 or so weeks apart) you wouldn't need 8 clones at a time or you'd have room for clone failures at least.
A single SS400w (in veg mode) in a 4x4 tent would be under 15w/sqft which, to me, is a little light for veg. What are you going to do with the other SS, since you have two?
The 110w LED might be OK for clones in a 2x2 but not enough, imho, for 2x4. I'm not a fan of fluorescent lights but a LOT of people use them for clones so they do work and, as Dustydirt said, cuttings don't need much light to root. A small MH/HPS (24/0) for the mother(s) would ensure they stay in veg. Perhaps something like the SolarFlare 200w would be a good mother light too...
YMMV...
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
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- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:56 pm
I don't even intend to buy any tent, I'll build everything custom, I just copy pasted 2x4 since this is the tent I currently own.
I will be staggering the two flower enclosures to space the harvests apart, yes. Ideally I'd like a harvest every 4-5 weeks. KM at 90d flower is not ideal, not when other sativas can flower in 70d or less. Though it'll come down to personal taste, I am sure.
I was planning on putting both SS400W in the 4x4, each on a lightrail, which eliminates the footprint issue entirely. I can run both with a single motor, which is the expensive part of light movers. Rather than move two lights on a single rail like I do now, I would be moving two on two separate rails. It's not like I have a lot of options... where else would I put them otherwise?
I will be staggering the two flower enclosures to space the harvests apart, yes. Ideally I'd like a harvest every 4-5 weeks. KM at 90d flower is not ideal, not when other sativas can flower in 70d or less. Though it'll come down to personal taste, I am sure.
I was planning on putting both SS400W in the 4x4, each on a lightrail, which eliminates the footprint issue entirely. I can run both with a single motor, which is the expensive part of light movers. Rather than move two lights on a single rail like I do now, I would be moving two on two separate rails. It's not like I have a lot of options... where else would I put them otherwise?
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Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:14 pm
Tent/room/area it's all synonymous. Since you're custom building you do have a lot more flexibility. 
Yeah, I really like 8 week strains even though that generally rules out most (not all) sativas. 90 days is just nuts.
I agree, the two SS400 lights in the 4x4 (in veg mode) would be about 30w/sqft which should be fine as long as the light mover takes care of the footprint issue. However, since you are custom building you really do have a lot of options because you're not locked in to any specific size. The question becomes what do you want to use not what do you have to use. LED does veg well...
Yeah, I really like 8 week strains even though that generally rules out most (not all) sativas. 90 days is just nuts.
I agree, the two SS400 lights in the 4x4 (in veg mode) would be about 30w/sqft which should be fine as long as the light mover takes care of the footprint issue. However, since you are custom building you really do have a lot of options because you're not locked in to any specific size. The question becomes what do you want to use not what do you have to use. LED does veg well...
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:19 pm
I have the SS400W, and they were expensive, so I will build around them first and foremost. Ideally I would have liked to use them for flowering. I've read HID+LED pairing works well... I wonder if a 600HID+SS400W on the same lightrail could make an interesting pairing for the flower tents? In a 2x8, say.
By 600HID I mean a 1000w dialed down to 600w with the remote, ideally in a vertical reflector like the OG.
By 600HID I mean a 1000w dialed down to 600w with the remote, ideally in a vertical reflector like the OG.
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Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by SisterMaryElephant » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:59 pm
I've also heard that LED supplements HID well but I certainly wouldn't do 2x8; 3x6 *maybe*. Even then, you have to remember that the SS400w isn't 400w it's about 310w of LED power. Depending on the ballast, you can "dim" it but you're also sacrificing penetration power/intensity which is where HID excels and where LED is lacking so, imho, 1000w combo watts is probably not the same as 1000 HID watts. It might be less of an issue with SCROG but I don't know for sure. The upside of that idea is that you can use the UVB that the SS lights provide but you could also just buy UVB fixtures to supplement any HID.
I'm not sold on vertical reflectors but a lot of growing decisions are personal preferences too. If you want to test it, build one with the LED + dimmed HID on a light rail verses one with just the full power 1000w HID (with or without supplemental UVB) then you can see for yourself which works better and compare costs.
I would experiment with much faster flowering strains so you can get down to business sooner though...
I'm not sold on vertical reflectors but a lot of growing decisions are personal preferences too. If you want to test it, build one with the LED + dimmed HID on a light rail verses one with just the full power 1000w HID (with or without supplemental UVB) then you can see for yourself which works better and compare costs.
I would experiment with much faster flowering strains so you can get down to business sooner though...
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: [GFP] Double SS400W Grow Journal
by FCGFrank » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:51 am
SisterMaryElephant wrote:I'm not sold on vertical reflectors but a lot of growing decisions are personal preferences too. If you want to test it, build one with the LED + dimmed HID on a light rail verses one with just the full power 1000w HID (with or without supplemental UVB) then you can see for yourself which works better and compare costs.
That sounds like fun, imho
I'm interested in either sativas or hybrids that are 80/20 sativa-indica, so I'll start hunting. AK47 has an 8 weeks flowering time, and I heard good things about it. Like KM the seeds are insanely expensive (190$ for a pack of 6 feminized) but this is a one time purchase. Super Silver Haze and Jack Herer often come up but my favorite seedback don't seem to carry them, and SSH is a clone only strain I thought?
I was wondering if you'd recommend I cut off all branches, gradually, under the canopy? All the leaves there are dying slowly, I was told it was a waste of energy and cutting them (lollipopping, I think it's called?).
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