I already know the answer....
Re: GFP 400W SolarStorm
by SisterMaryElephant » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:36 am
Are you going to prove me wrong, with results, or not?
I already know the answer....
I already know the answer....
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
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Re: GFP 400W SolarStorm
by SisterMaryElephant » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:40 am
PurpleGlowGrow wrote:So what are you proposing, that the electromagnetic spectrum changed between 1972 and now somehow?
I've already linked a post where I explain that plants use spectra outside of those measured by PAR, which academics didn't understand back then. They didn't know that plants use IR, UV or even green (which is within the range) but they later learned that they do.
Are you claiming that plants *only* use the spectra measured by PAR?
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: GFP 400W SolarStorm
by PurpleGlowGrow » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:45 am
SisterMaryElephant wrote:Are you going to prove me wrong, with results, or not?
I already know the answer....
Prove you wrong how? Your logic is faulty, imo. Just b/c an LED doesn't perform as well as an HID doesn't disprove PAR. You'd need to either prove that those bandwidths are not the only ones needed for Photosynthesis/Chlorosynthesis, in which case THAT would become PAR or a new measure since it is by definition photosynthetically active radiation. Explaining why will help shed light on the issue (PUN-isher
). Give me a research grant I sure as heck will be glad to figure that one out for you.Your proof was nothing more than a few statements w/o citations wasn't it? If you had them why didn't you share them so we could avoid this round robin of nonsense and I could just see your proof? It's a lot easier to present the body of evidence than it is to engage in an argument based on anecdotal evidence and rhetoric.
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Re: GFP 400W SolarStorm
by PurpleGlowGrow » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:46 am
Plants don't use UV. It causes them to secrete protective oils.
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Re: GFP 400W SolarStorm
by SisterMaryElephant » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:54 am
My logic is that PAR is meaningless in determining if a LED grow light will cover the areas they claim (based on PAR) or the equivalent LED to HID light (based on PAR) since the results don't back up the claims.
They make claims based on PAR, The claims fail the real world results test, but you still think that even though they fail the tests that the reasoning is sound.
You're still going to have to prove that a smaller LED that has the same/higher PAR as a larger HID will give the same/better results if you want to be taken seriously.
Are you going to back up your claim with results or not? Results are all that matter in the real world and we all know that you're all talk, no results.
Prove me wrong, if you can...but we know that you can't.
They make claims based on PAR, The claims fail the real world results test, but you still think that even though they fail the tests that the reasoning is sound.
You're still going to have to prove that a smaller LED that has the same/higher PAR as a larger HID will give the same/better results if you want to be taken seriously.
Are you going to back up your claim with results or not? Results are all that matter in the real world and we all know that you're all talk, no results.
Prove me wrong, if you can...but we know that you can't.
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: GFP 400W SolarStorm
by SisterMaryElephant » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:03 am
PurpleGlowGrow wrote:Plants don't use UV. It causes them to secrete protective oils.
I thought you were an academic?
So your "logic" is that plants don't use UV but then you say they use UV to help produce protective oils? As if plants don't use those "protective oils" for anything...useful?
Seriously?
Why do you think that the SS series grow lights have UVB bulbs?
I suppose that you don't think IR is used, by plants, for anything either?
Too funny...
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
Re: GFP 400W SolarStorm
by PurpleGlowGrow » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:06 am
My results are suffering plants at the outside of an area that was allegedly covered by the manufacturer after two weeks, enough time to show signs of stress from lack of light. I'm not arguing that at all, and after a few hours, I don't really think you understand what I'm saying. You're creating a straw man here talking about LED results versus HPS. That means you're suggesting I'm arguing something that is obviously false so as to attack it, in case you don't know. Let me ask you a hypothetical, could a light source outperform an HPS lamp? Yes, the sun does! Could that be an LED one day? Sure, why not! Will PAR still be relevant, even if needing refinement? Absolutely!
The UV bulbs are to create essential oils for cannabis growers. They are produced on the flowers in the form of trichomes to protect the plant from UV. This is also academic.
The UV bulbs are to create essential oils for cannabis growers. They are produced on the flowers in the form of trichomes to protect the plant from UV. This is also academic.
Last edited by PurpleGlowGrow on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GFP 400W SolarStorm
by PurpleGlowGrow » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:08 am
To clarify, the UV acts as a stimulus, but not as a fuel source. That's why the SS only suggests you use it for the last 2 weeks. It is completely useless to a diy local-vore like myself.
Last edited by PurpleGlowGrow on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GFP 400W SolarStorm
by PurpleGlowGrow » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:11 am
Anymore questions? Or do you want to teach me something else?
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Re: GFP 400W SolarStorm
by SisterMaryElephant » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:25 am
Your plants are suffering even though they have so much PAR compared to the HID lights? How can that be since you also claim that PAR is the proven measurement for grow lights? Oh, the humanity....
I'm demonstrating the fact that an LED light with a high PAR rating doesn't mean it's a better grow light than a larger HPS with a lower PAR rating. That SHOULD indicate that PAR isn't as meaningful as you want to believe but you refuse to see it because you don't want to (or can't) admit that what you thought you knew is wrong and that somebody without a degree in botany is right.
Now you're trying to move the goal post. We're not talking about what LED lights might be one day, we're talking about what they are now. Even NOW, some smaller LED lights have a higher PAR reading than some larger HID lights but that doesn't mean jack.
Regardless, plants do USE UV even though you claimed they don't. Are you also saying that chlorophyll a doesn't use UV below 400nm? I'll tell you right now that it does, just not as much as some of the other spectra. BTW, CLW suggests UVB for the last 2-4 weeks, IIRC. Also cannabis trichomes are a form of protection from some insects too.
I'd like to teach you logic but I'm only human...
Hilarious...
I'm demonstrating the fact that an LED light with a high PAR rating doesn't mean it's a better grow light than a larger HPS with a lower PAR rating. That SHOULD indicate that PAR isn't as meaningful as you want to believe but you refuse to see it because you don't want to (or can't) admit that what you thought you knew is wrong and that somebody without a degree in botany is right.
Now you're trying to move the goal post.
We're not talking about what LED lights might be one day, we're talking about what they are now. Even NOW, some smaller LED lights have a higher PAR reading than some larger HID lights but that doesn't mean jack.Regardless, plants do USE UV even though you claimed they don't. Are you also saying that chlorophyll a doesn't use UV below 400nm? I'll tell you right now that it does, just not as much as some of the other spectra. BTW, CLW suggests UVB for the last 2-4 weeks, IIRC. Also cannabis trichomes are a form of protection from some insects too.
I'd like to teach you logic but I'm only human...
Hilarious...
Disclaimer:
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
I still use HID and I'm NOT an LED expert. All of my LED knowledge is from other parties or research so I can't say from first hand experience one way or another. I also run a medical grow consulting business in SoCal.
- SisterMaryElephant
- Posts: 2633
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm
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