Thanx GR....

One day I will graduate to the more advanced ways, like you and others.... I am going to try getting the basics down pat first... Some of you guys are way above my head!!

I started this, as I am sure most newbies do, with my hopes far ahead of my abilities... Thought is was going to be easier than it is...lol

I am learning....and you can bet whatever is precious to ya that I will do better next time!! Which I am getting prep'd for this weekend!!!

I love a challenge....especially one that I know I can overcome....even if I need a little help, and more learning!!

Help me if ya can dude!!

Happy!

SME, or anyone else....is there a point of diminishing returns when it comes to lighting up these girls?

I have been struggling with major set backs!! While occupied with harvesting & drying the last grow, tearing down and cleaning the Aeroflo, then making my mods, the temps & humidity in my baby tubs & tent got out of whack on me...I found what turned out to be White Powdery Mildew!!! I read up on it and found there is no cure and the future was not looking bright for my next grow! It was looking like I was gonna have to get rid of all plant material, sterilize the room...and everything in it....then start over....SUX!!

I started by pulling & trashing the most affected babies and noticed the roots had also developed issues....the brown, slimy kind....root rot. The scary reality is setting in that I may have to start stretching my last harvest if I have to repopulate the Aeroflo from seed!!!

After trashing 20 or so I was so depressed thinking about having to start this process, waiting for an unpredictable seed grow... I made the decision to try and save some of these girls and get rid of them by flowering them & bring em to finish!!!

I have spent almost 2 weeks nursing what was left and have ended up salvaging a grow or at least a partial grow.......I think/hope!! Whatever I can get from it will be better than the nothing I was facing if I didn't try.....

They are on their 2nd day of 12/12 and looking great...thinking about making a new journal for them, cuz I may need help because of the rocky start these girls have had.... From what I have read, I believe if I can keep the WPM under control, I can keep them healthy & they will produce...

Happy

There is always a point of diminished returns but that point varies. I know people that grow trees with 10+kw HPS for 4 or 5 plants. Their g/w numbers look good when everything stays healthy so it works. SOG growers would probably do better.

With powdery mildew, you have several options, especially while they're small. What are you doing to combat it other than pruning?

The root rot, if not temp related, might be helped by adding mycorrhizae to the res.

Try not to start from seed if you don't have to, start from clone(s) if possible, that will save time.

The reason I ask is because I have reconfigured my grow area because of the disasters... I have removed both outboard grow chambers, cutting it to 4 chambers... reducing the area to 25" x 64".... It jacks my w/sq ft way up.

To fight the WPM I did a couple of things....but not all at once....but I was scrambling. You know me and my patience...

Most of the white was at the base of the stalk, and in the worst cases around & down into the Hydroton. I believe it was brought about by over crowding, temp & humidity getting too high and not enough circulation.. These were little girls...3-6", starting to get a little thick.

When I read that there is no cure and the best I could hope for was to control it I was pissed! I just started pulling the worst and trashing them...during this I decided I HAD TO salvage something!! So I started looking at what might be savable...

I read that heavily affected leaves would not recover so I did prune about the bottom 1" or so of leaves, which were most affected. I found one thread that suggested spraying them with a mix of baking soda, water and a few drops of dish soap(supposedly to make the mix cling). I ended up with a bunch of freakin bubbles!! Took a break and read some more....I found one thread that suggested a treatment of high Ph water/peroxide...so I mixed up some water and Ph'd it up to about 9 and poured in some peroxide. I set a bunch of babies in an empty tub and started to pour my mix in...it seemed to be doing something...bubbling like peroxide does...or it might have been left over soap....lol I left them sit in that for 15-20...between some of the Hydroton floating out of the pots and others tipping over I ended up re-potting about all of them, then giving them a thorough flush under the tap, before putting them into newly cleaned tubs.

It seemed to knock the WPM back, but two days later I am seeing root rot!! The only chiller i have is tied to the Aeroflo so I have a hard time controlling temps in the tubs... I know I have to get them in the Aeroflo and get a steady temp in order to have chance of getting them healthy.

I ready the Aeroflo, cut visible brown roots, then give them each a 5 minute dip in a peroxide solution, then flush, then into the Aeroflo. The mix in the res was very light nutes(~450ppm) with added Hygrozyme. I gave them a day to settle in then lowered water in the chambers, poured Ph'd water & hygrozyme down through the top of each plant, then gave it an hour or so before raising the water level back up. I did this every other day,3 times....then I gave them another couple of days before doing a complete flush & water change. By this time the plants had improved 1000%!! Beautiful new growth on top, as well as under the pots!

Last Thursday my tallest was about 5.25 inches and I kicked the timer to 12/12...and I did a complete flush & water change, using LF...1:2. Today I measured and some of the biggest have hit 7-7.5"!! Beautiful girls....some with their little white hairs poking out already...there are a couple of laggers...but these girls are getting full! Because of all the delays and pruning to keep them small, very few of these girls have only one top!! I am excited to still have em!!

From what I read about WPM....Once it is in a plant, it will always be in the plant?? And if one plant in a space is affected it is a pretty safe bet that all plants in that space have it...even if they are not showing signs?? And one other is that to completely get rid of this stuff you have to get rid of all plant matter & basically sterilize your grow space and everything in it??

If these are true...or even close to true, I don't want to chance a clone from anything in that room...do I?? I hope it is true because that is what I have set my plans on....finish these girls, tear everything down, no mothers, no clones, no plants...then sanitize room and contents....pull in my fresh stock...and be more careful!!

When I get to a next time I am thinking these problems could have been avoided...if I had planned more time in between grows(last one went 3+ weeks over, which delayed these girls)...and if I had tried going straight from cloner to Aeroflo.....thinkk it would work...wouldn't it?? If I kept the water level high enough in the chambers??

If I can make a go of these girls and have some degree of success, it will buy me enough time to get some healthy stock going from seed I have on hand...and not chance WMP coming out again.....plus an added benefit...I will know exactly what strain I am growing...lol

Thoughts?

Happy

I alway said that I thought it was too deep, with all of the chambers, for those lights. What's your w/sqft look like now?

There are PM washes, sprays and even foggers I think. You can also foliar feed/spray them (occasionally, before flowers get big) with high pH (like 9.0) which PM doesn't like. Keeping the humidity low helps. Once you harvest and are ready to sterilize (make sure the PM didn't come from the mom/clone/veg areas either) you can use bleach for surfaces, ozone, enzyme based cleaners and maybe even foggers. I don't know about the baking soda and dish soap idea but a quick dip in peroxide might help.

If your chiller can handle the load you can add another wort+pump for the other res.

I'd rather have too low humidity than too high. Overcrowding leads to problems.

I think you should try cloner to aeroflo, at least once or twice so you have a baseline for that method. You can always experiment later and try 1 week veg etc...

With just the 4 grow chambers it is still 64" long, but only 25" wide outside to outside. I come up with about 11.2 square feet....With the 2 SS400s and 2 SF200s I figure a total of 1020 watts.....which puts me slightly over 90watt/sw ft.....so I am almost twice the 50w/sq ft that you said was minimum for good results..... I have great coverage...at this point...plus I have the Orca panels I made surrounding the grow chambers on all 4 sides. So all light is reflected back towards the girls.

These girls are growing amazingly fast! I flipped exactly one week ago...with the tallest at 5-5.25". Today the tallest measure over 11"!!! I am hoping to get to the finish line this time with nothing bigger than 20". With that height the lights should still provide enough penetration...shouldn't they?? You would be proud SME...no nute burn on my tips!!! And these girls are beautiful!! I am going to hang a cfl & get some pics...

Right now we are in between seasons here, not running AC, no running heat & humidity is staying mid 40s...once heat kicks in it will get a little lower. Even though they are not showing signs of WPM coming back, I am thinking about spraying high ph water around the base, stem and Hydroton of each once a week. Would that help prevent another episode?

If it came from any of those areas, it won't again... Scraped my mothers, emptied & sterilized cloner, emptied & sterilized baby/veg tent inside & out. I have no live plant material...other than current grow. I am starting new stock from seed in another space, hoping to get a couple mothers to feed the cloner after this grow is done.. I do plan to go from the cloner to Aeroflo next time I have clones. I think it will do better..

I never said 50 was a min for good (subjective) results but I, personally, wouldn't want less. I think our best LED yields in these forums have been over 50w/sqft but 50+ is still no guarantee. It's just a rule of thumb I go by.

I want to do more research into minimizing stretch and stacking tight internodes but as I've said before the plants will usually double or even triple in size from flip to harvest.

If I couldn't find a desired clone, locally, that I was sure was clean and healthy, that's how I'd do it. Veg out a few seeds to make mothers, clone them and start stuffing the pots once fully rooted. If you find that they don't fill the canopy enough by harvest time then veg them for a few days/week the next time, etc. With a little tweaking you'll get it dialed in for that strain/your system and you'll get in a rhythm for taking clones just before harvest so that they're ready when you are. It's like a dance...

OK...minimum was a poor choice of words... I just remembered that I wanted to be on the plus side of 50w/sq ft.

I am trying to keep my lights 12" off the tops, which is difficult with the rapid growth...but I have no burning or bleaching.

Obtaining anything locally isn't much of an option... That is why I am getting a small seed grow started. I am hoping that in the 9 or so weeks until harvest on the Aeroflo, I will be able to get at least 2 females sexed and back into veg mode, for clones to feed the next grow....

Happy

There is a bit more to stretching that just genetics and how much light they do or don't get but I haven't had time to research it all to come up with a theoretical method to reduce it that I'd want to try.

What kind of seeds are you going with this time? When are you starting and why haven't you started a journal to show people how to grow a mom from seed yet? Quit hijacking your old journal with this new grow.

Hahahaha, as soon as I get a pic or two to put up...maybe tonight...