SisterMaryElephant wrote:You don't have to be rude about it dwlcd, we sometimes get sidetracked discussing posts and while he's wrong about where the heat comes from, we were talking about how to get rid of it so there was nothing wrong with him replying to your other comment. He's been corrected.

This forum is not like other grow forums, we try to be more polite here.

I think I am and was being "polite".

I don't think it is rude to correct an error or question where the info came from, especially when they don't know the difference between light and heat.

I am more used to discussions where the participants understand the physics.

Anyway, managed to put together a material list and figured out something that may work.

Will post pics later.

Perhaps I mistook your bluntness for rudeness but let's try to keep it civil and if you want to get back to the the grow journal we can move the debate over heat and light to another thread. If you want to keep debating it here, then don't complain about what this forum is "about" when people reply to your comments.

dwcled wrote:

DarkChessLord wrote:IMO that would help but it's not going to do a ton, because in my experience the heat is coming from the photons, not the panel itself.

What is your experience/education on the difference between light and heat?


I thought this "forum" was to discuss the Cal.Light works systems and report on the operation and results.

The ventilation method of this panel is not what I would have done, and I am gonna fix that as in its' current form, the temperatures are not acceptable.

I have over 30 years experience in research and development of electronic products and systems and "black body" sensors so I know of what I write.

I think CLW is onto a good thing, it can be better.

I to work on electronics for a living actually thats all I have done for my entire adult life...both in the military and out and considering that most people will either 1 grow in the open and heat is not a issue or 2 grow in a tent you have to make sacrifices. The unit is already big. The fans suck in air push it out of the sides. To add a something to funnel it away would add to the size. I have no heat issues as I have a good sized inline fan on it and do not try to grow or stuff a tent into a closet. If you had unlimited space sure you could built some venting system to direct it elsewhere but then it would be out of the reach of a tent owner which would make sales go into the toliet. This light can easily fit into a 3x3 or 4x4.

With any electronics you play a game of trying to keep it cool passively or not giving a shit and and actively cooling it. Should see some of the gear I work on 1 20 foot long shelter has so many electronics in it they have 2 50,000 BTU ACs running max to keep it cool. As a result operator comfort is not a concern and when your in there you wear a jacket beanie gloves.

Powerwiz wrote:To add a something to funnel it away would add to the size. I have no heat issues as I have a good sized inline fan on it and do not try to grow or stuff a tent into a closet. If you had unlimited space sure you could built some venting system to direct it elsewhere but then it would be out of the reach of a tent owner which would make sales go into the toliet. This light can easily fit into a 3x3 or 4x4.

Many people run air cooled 1000w HPS lights in a 4x4 tent so there is room and depending on how CLW (or 3rd parties) modified their cooling system space shouldn't be that big of a factor. My design for cooling the SS800w light would have added a little to the top but very little to the sides but my way would run against the fans and would void the manufacturer's warranty so it's probably better for CLW to change their design (as they see fit) or for people to sacrifice a little space, if they want to provide intake and exhaust outside the grow area. Growers like dwcled who supplement co2 have every right to be concerned as these lights have flaws when used in that type of system. The heat has to be removed from the grow area without removing the added co2 which requires a relatively sealed light with an intake and an exhaust or entirely passive cooling system which would require a heat pump (AC unit) inside the grow area.

Then dont get the light. Simple answer. Not every product is for everyone and accommodating all is stupid.

Anyone that knows or researches or simply views the light should know that. Granted I might work with electronics but the first thing I thought of was it must generate massive amounts of heat to have a heatsink that size which is in plain view. Its probably the largest heatsink Ive seen outside the stuff I work on. Did not have to buy it to understand how it was cooling it I simply looked it in a magazine.

Its like if you look at Apples Mac Pros it has MASSIVE heat sinks. Well dont have to own one to see what there attempting. The thing makes no noise because it has a 5 pound block of metal on the processors. They choose to use heat sinks with slow moving fans for heat exchange rather then small ones and fast fans which make alot. You have to put your ear on the machine to hear it when its operating. As a result the tower is larger then normal and weighs a ton. There betting that you never move your tower and that you dont work in a hot enviroment.

Its all a trade off.

I agree that not every light is for everyone but CLW could easily make their lights adaptable to appeal to more people and, in fact, they've said that they're working on the cooling issues after I (and others) suggested air cooling flanges. What, exactly, that means or when that may happen I have no idea but it's also silly to drive away a large percentage of potential customers with a "like or leave it" attitude. George is well known for his excellent customer service so I assume that he wants more customers not fewer which is why they're looking into the cooling problems that people like dwcled are having.

Not everyone does that kind of research and the documentation on their website doesn't mention how much heat these put out. One of the common myths about LED is that they run cool.

I agree, virtually every decision has trade offs, I don't see much of a down side to offering a new model or an option to use cooling flanges via an adapter. Yes, it will take a little more room but for those that need/want them it's worth the trade-off and for CLW it means broadening their customer base. Sure, CLW will have to spend a little engineering time to find a solution but it would probably be worth the effort seeing as how they already said they were looking into it.

YMMV...

SisterMaryElephant wrote:
Not everyone does that kind of research and the documentation on their website doesn't mention how much heat these put out. One of the common myths about LED is that they run cool.

YMMV...

Well 800w 5 amps common sense it will generate heat..but alot do not realize that especially those conned by other LED makers who sell LEDs that draw hardly any wattage..of course they run cool.

Here are pics of the install.



Shown are the covered 6" ducts for the Cooltube.



The plumbing I am putting together for venting the fixture.





As to why I got the LED, I am convinced they work, and after talking to the owner I am convinced he wants a quality product.

I can offer suggestions right off the bat.

Make it lighter, and I don't care if the power supply ends up being like a remote ballast.

Duct it so it replaces existing hoods as it does need the cooling.

Powerwiz wrote:

SisterMaryElephant wrote:
Not everyone does that kind of research and the documentation on their website doesn't mention how much heat these put out. One of the common myths about LED is that they run cool.

YMMV...

Well 800w 5 amps common sense it will generate heat..but alot do not realize that especially those conned by other LED makers who sell LEDs that draw hardly any wattage..of course they run cool.

Yes, common sense for those of us that understand electrical circuits but it's not really 800w, there are 160 5w diodes but they're not all on at the same time (depending on what settings are selected) and the LED drivers are probably under-driven so they last longer. Right, a single (or even a few) diode(s) don't generate much heat but when you're shoving several hundred watts in a light, it has to deal with it. CLW's mistake, cooling wise, was not taking into consideration people that want to supplement co2, which isn't a small number of growers, and venting out of the sides instead of the top, imho.

SisterMaryElephant wrote:

Powerwiz wrote:

SisterMaryElephant wrote:


Yes, common sense for those of us that understand electrical circuits but it's not really 800w, there are 160 5w diodes but they're not all on at the same time (depending on what settings are selected) and the LED drivers are probably under-driven so they last longer. Right, a single (or even a few) diode(s) don't generate much heat but when you're shoving several hundred watts in a light, it has to deal with it. CLW's mistake, cooling wise, was not taking into consideration people that want to supplement co2, which isn't a small number of growers, and venting out of the sides instead of the top, imho.

I am fully aware of it not being 800w. 690w on my Killawatt with everything on, 450-460 in Grow mode.

To exhaust out of the top you would have to isolate the intake or you would recirculate hot air achieving you not a whole lot. Eventually you would hit the thermal cut off point and the circuits would turn off. If you reversed the fans though that would work put a flange or angle the heat sinks down some suck in air from below and out the top.

Oh well dont really care as I dont have a heat problem. So the so sad to bad kicks in on that one