SisterMaryElephant wrote:People get decent results with the SS series lights but a 1000w HID should do better so it's a matter of acceptance.

93 is pushing it, I wouldn't sweat the 1% humidity difference.

Keep on keeping on...

Yup, 93 is a bit high. I opened the room door, but kept the tent closed. The temp normalized at exactly 90, humidity shot to 66% (up from 45%), and the girls overall look like they're not hating me too much for it. I'll need more time to evaluate.

Here's some pictures after 24 hours of CO2:

Incredible Bulk
2.875" -> 3.25" = 11.54% taller

Incredible Bulk side

Photo Sep 02, 2 18 33 PM.jpg (449.46 KiB) Viewed 36027 times

IB top

Photo Sep 02, 2 18 58 PM.jpg (206.38 KiB) Viewed 36027 times

Money Maker #1
3.8125" -> 4.125" = 7.58% taller

Money Maker #1 side

Photo Sep 02, 2 19 29 PM.jpg (348.29 KiB) Viewed 36027 times

MM1 top

Photo Sep 02, 2 19 37 PM.jpg (376.1 KiB) Viewed 36027 times

Money Maker #2
2.25" -> 3.125" = 28% taller

Money Maker #2 side

Photo Sep 02, 2 20 00 PM.jpg (248.07 KiB) Viewed 36027 times

MM2 top

Photo Sep 02, 2 20 15 PM.jpg (283.59 KiB) Viewed 36027 times

Pineapple Chunk #1
1.625" -> 2.0" = 18.75% taller

Pineapple Chunk #1 side

Photo Sep 02, 2 20 35 PM.jpg (296.54 KiB) Viewed 36027 times

PC1 top

Photo Sep 02, 2 20 43 PM.jpg (276.23 KiB) Viewed 36027 times

Pineapple Chunk #2
2.25" -> 2.5" = 10% taller

Pineapple Chunk #2 side

Photo Sep 02, 2 21 08 PM.jpg (296.21 KiB) Viewed 36027 times

PC2 top

Photo Sep 02, 2 21 18 PM.jpg (265.33 KiB) Viewed 36027 times

Overall, I'd say they look pretty good still. They're reaching up, and I know from reading others journals that heat will do that to the plants. I am fairly sure that the CO2 has not been detrimental to growth, but I don't have a benchmark before hand so it's tough to say. I will say though that when I peaked my head in there for the first time today, I thought woah, they are way bigger than yesterday. In most cases they're over 10% larger, which I guess would be a noticeable difference.

Thoughts?

SME, if I keep the temp at 90 with CO2, that's not too high is it?

Today I noticed some small roots showing out of the lower holes of 3 of my 1 gallon pots. I'll let you guess which pots had roots out the bottom (Hint: neither of the Pineapple Chunks have roots visible, surprise surprise).

Here are some photos. I'm sure this doesn't mean they're root bound, but it does mean the roots have gotten that far which I'm fairly excited about.




Are we getting close to transplant time? I'm thinking the visible roots are 1 sign they're getting ready, but I think they all need to grow a little more before transplant into their final 10 gallon cloth pots. Obviously the pineapple chunks will need to wait for sure because they're still so small.

Also on transplant, do I let the soil dry out first, or soaking wet, or just damp? I'm thinking damp. This soil is pretty light, so it might all go dumping if I try to upend the pot while it's dry. Any help with my first real transplant in soil would be much appreciated!

MC

they are looking nice.

i have no idea how to properly transplant so i'll be following this closely. SME or some of the dirt farmers here should be able to help

I'm seeing more and more roots poking out holes this morning, mostly on the IB and 2xMM, but also a few on both PCs. I also squeezed the containers to feel the root ball, which was difficult to determine because the rootmaker pots are very firm plastic. I felt a definite root ball in Money Maker #1's pot, as well as the Incredible Bulk. I'm thinking that's sign #2 that a transplant is coming shortly. Perhaps one more week on MM#1 and IB. I am sure that those 2 will make the final cut of 4. In fact, I know it'll be 1 of the Pineapple Chunks that I end up culling to make 4 plants. It makes me sad, but that was the plan all along. They're just still so small, while the other 2 strains are growing quite nicely. As excited as I am about the Pineapple Chunk smoke, I'm not looking forward to the infamous long grow cycle that these girls are known for.

Temperatures have been high, as usual with the tent sealed. Ranging from 90 (typical) to 93 (short 10 minute periods before dropping again) but I would still like to see them a bit lower. Because of this, I have opened one of the 6" duct ports on the roof of the tent. My hope here is that I can let out some of the heat without letting out all the CO2. As it is heavier than air, I'd hope it stays mostly in the tent.

I've noticed it the time it takes to empty the tent of CO2 (time from opening the tent until CO2 kicks in again to refill) is about 1.5 minutes, the same amount of time it takes to fill the tent from ambient 300ppm. My pressure remaining in the tank has not dropped noticeably since starting supplementation.

Also I do have some humidity room to spare, so I believe that opening the duct vent will mitigate temperature only. I'd like to see 88 degrees average in there, swinging to 85 and 90 on the bottom and top end respectively. So far this has been the case.

Here are pictures of the ladies, as well as their updated approximate heights. I'm not doing the math this time though. I think they are looking beautiful.


Incredible Bulk

Incredible Bulk side

Photo Sep 04, 8 47 34 AM.jpg (402.94 KiB) Viewed 36010 times

Incredible Bulk Top

Photo Sep 04, 8 47 44 AM.jpg (930.84 KiB) Viewed 36010 times

Money Maker #1

Money Maker #1 Side

Photo Sep 04, 8 46 23 AM.jpg (320.95 KiB) Viewed 36010 times

Money Maker #1 top

Photo Sep 04, 8 46 42 AM.jpg (347.93 KiB) Viewed 36010 times

Money Maker #2

Money Maker #2 side

Photo Sep 04, 8 48 31 AM.jpg (335.68 KiB) Viewed 36010 times

Money Maker #2 top

Photo Sep 04, 8 48 40 AM.jpg (323.65 KiB) Viewed 36010 times

Pineapple Chunk #1

Pineapple Chunk #1 side

Photo Sep 04, 8 49 07 AM.jpg (282.53 KiB) Viewed 36010 times

Pineapple Chunk #1 top

Photo Sep 04, 8 49 31 AM.jpg (337.96 KiB) Viewed 36010 times

Pineapple Chunk #2

Pineapple Chunk #2 side

Photo Sep 04, 8 50 09 AM.jpg (327.95 KiB) Viewed 36010 times

Pineapple Chunk #2 top

Photo Sep 04, 8 50 19 AM.jpg (324.85 KiB) Viewed 36010 times

I think that soon they will have the transplant, and soon after they get over the shock they will have their first defoliation. 2 weeks and another defol. later, and they should be ready for flower. So that puts me right around the beginning of October for 12/12 flip theoretically. If that happens, I should be enjoying a nice harvest just in time for Christmas, even with a 10 week flowering time.

Thanks for watching.
MC

Just for kicks, I put the 21 day top-down photos next to the 23 day photos. Here's a few to compare growth for the 2 days I've been using the CO2.







MC

Yesterday I mentioned that I opened a 6" vent duct on top of the tent to mitigate temperature. It did a good job, so I opened another for a total of 2. After doing that, 12 hours later the temperature stabilized at exactly 86, with no fluctuation. While I'm new to CO2, I believe that temperature is optimal. SME, can you confirm that?

Unfortunately, I believe that some of the girls suffered a bit of heat stress while the temperature was above 90 for 3 days. I'm a tiny bit surprised to see this, as I've read several places that 90*-95* is optimal. However, SME warned me that 93 was too hot, perhaps 91 was as well.

I'd love to get anyone's opinion on my leaf coloration, if I'm right about heat stress and if 86* will be enough to remedy the problem. I also raised the SS880 another 4 inches to make the height 24" above the tops of the tallest plants, so it may drop to 85*. Here are photos of the girls this morning:


Incredible Bulk

IB

Incredible Bulk.jpg (390.18 KiB) Viewed 35996 times

IB close

Incredible Bulk close.jpg (318.96 KiB) Viewed 35996 times

Money Maker #1

MM1

Money Maker 1.jpg (199.69 KiB) Viewed 35996 times

MM1 close

Money Maker 1 close.jpg (329.41 KiB) Viewed 35996 times

Money Maker #2

MM2

Money Maker 2.jpg (325.02 KiB) Viewed 35996 times

MM2 close

Money Maker 2 close.jpg (321.99 KiB) Viewed 35996 times

Pineapple Chunk #1

pc1

Pineapple Chunk 1.jpg (329.5 KiB) Viewed 35996 times

pc1 close

Pineapple Chunk 1 close.jpg (338.17 KiB) Viewed 35996 times

Pineapple Chunk #2

pc2

Pineapple Chunk 2.jpg (212.87 KiB) Viewed 35996 times

pc2 close

Pineapple Chunk 2 close.jpg (227.12 KiB) Viewed 35996 times

They were quite dry today, so I fed all of them except PC2 as she is still damp. She'll be another 2 days before feeding. Conditions and feeding info below:

Environment
Current temp: 86* steady
Photoperiod: 24/0
RH: 55%-65%
CO2: 1250-1500 PPM
SS880 height: adjusted today to maintain 24" above top of canopy

Feeding today: (all except PC2 who is still damp)
Bio-Vega: 8 ml/gal
Bio-Rhizo: 8 ml/gal
CalMg: 1 tsp/gal
TDS: 560 ppm
pH: 6.5

Run-off
TDS: 980 ppm (woah....?)
pH: 6.5

Thank you in advance for your opinions on my assumed heat stress.
MC

hey MC,
3 observations:
the pic of the PC1 coloring is a bit strange. have you checked the link to pics of plant issues that SME put up?

i have a fan (not oscillating) that can point straight up. what if you put that right under the light and had it blow upwards? with the open vents on top, it should blow some of the heat up and out. but then you'd lose your CO2 so a double edged sword. don't know which is better: optimal temps or the CO2 addition me personally would go with temps being more impt.

not sure what that high of a runoff means? it's almost double what's going in.

Jorge Cervantes "Marijuana Horticulture The Indoor / Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible" and on page 319 he mentions that "under normal conditions, the ideal temperature range for indoor growth is 72 - 76 F (22- 24 C)". I have been trying to keep the temp to that level, but a friend of mine (more experienced) suggested to let them go up to 32 C. Now, Cervantes says that "daytime temperatures above 85 F (29 C) or below 55 F (13 C) will slow / stop growth

rkymtnman wrote:hey MC,
3 observations:
the pic of the PC1 coloring is a bit strange. have you checked the link to pics of plant issues that SME put up?

Yes, she's got really weird colors on her new growth. I did check the deficiency charts, and the best I can come up with is a Mg deficiency. That's odd, because I've been using CalMg + since the beginning. However, when looking at SME's pH chart, it looks like it's only absorbed @ 9.5 pH and up. Since my pH was lower than that, and was just at the last feeding raised to 6.5, that perhaps caused the problem.

Having said all of that, she is the weakest plant right now, and since I'm getting really close to transplant time, it'll be her that doesn't make the team of 4. So I'm not going to worry too much about it.

rkymtnman wrote:i have a fan (not oscillating) that can point straight up. what if you put that right under the light and had it blow upwards? with the open vents on top, it should blow some of the heat up and out. but then you'd lose your CO2 so a double edged sword. don't know which is better: optimal temps or the CO2 addition me personally would go with temps being more impt.

On the fan: that's a great idea. If I need further temp control I'll have to consider that. Yes, with my ventilation I'm losing CO2, there's no doubt, and I completely agree that temp would be more important. Considering that, I also opened a passive intake vent at the bottom of the tent too, right behind an oscillating fan. This has drawn in some more cool air, and dropped the temp to 84 degrees at the canopy. I'll have to see how this affects my CO2 usage, but so far the regulator hasn't been running all the time, so at least it's not constantly replacing/pumping it in. As long as I'm not replacing a tank every week though, @ $7 per refill, I a SOOO okay with losing some CO2 to bring the temperature to where it belongs.

rkymtnman wrote:not sure what that high of a runoff means? it's almost double what's going in.

I know, weird. Maybe there was some built up salts in there? I have no idea since my last watering was the flush with only CalMg+.

rkymtnman wrote:Jorge Cervantes "Marijuana Horticulture The Indoor / Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible" and on page 319 he mentions that "under normal conditions, the ideal temperature range for indoor growth is 72 - 76 F (22- 24 C)". I have been trying to keep the temp to that level, but a friend of mine (more experienced) suggested to let them go up to 32 C. Now, Cervantes says that "daytime temperatures above 85 F (29 C) or below 55 F (13 C) will slow / stop growth

Thanks for reminding me that he said that. I do remember reading that, and he is one of the sources I've read that says below 90 is optimal. Your friend that lets his go to 89* F... That's what I'm thinking would be my safe upper limit. If I fluctuate between 84-89, with CO2, my guess is that I'm at a decent center.

I hate looking at burned tips. But since she's going to be defoliated soon, I'll be watching the new growth to see how she is doing and hoping that my changes will help.

Thanks!
MC

48 hours after my heat stress incident, the girls look like they are recovering nicely. I think they like their new slightly-cooler-but-still-warmer-than-I'd-normally-run-it-without-CO2 environment. Temp is holding constant at 84". It seems like the heat convection through the top of the tent has helped stabilize it.

I think the heat stress came from the light being too close. The Incredible Bulk seems to have suffered it the worst, and she was one of the tallest. She grew to around 18" away from the light. Since I've moved it to 24" and lowered the temp, her new growth looks pretty good.

Incredible Bulk




Humidity is holding steady as well at 45-50%. I'm running it a little lower than I had before, simply because I was speaking with a master grower at a dispensary around here. He mentioned that humidity is obviously the prime cause of PM, combined with low air movement (which I knew and we've discussed already here). He said that the second biggest factor (may be the 1st, depends on who you ask) is genetic strain resistance. I agree there too. But the last thing he said is that humidity can be lower than 60% while vegging, and should be if attainable. Obviously flowering is when you want it lowest, but he said even in veg 45-55% is acceptable. Lower than what Cervantes recommends during veg, but I'll go ahead and run it at 45-55%.

CO2 reading on my pressure gauge hasn't changed noticeably at all. I think I'm coming up on a week of CO2 use? I'm too lazy too look back right now. Anyway, the CO2 levels haven't seemed to have a problem maintaing 1250-1500 ppm even with the increased ventilation.

Here are the rest of the photos from this morning.

Money Maker 1

mm1

money maker 1 9-7.jpg (326.57 KiB) Viewed 35978 times

mm1 top

money maker 1 9-7 top.jpg (278.15 KiB) Viewed 35978 times

Money Maker 2

mm2

money maker 2 9-7.jpg (238.34 KiB) Viewed 35978 times

mm2 top

money maker 2 9-7 top.jpg (323.03 KiB) Viewed 35978 times

Pineapple Chunk 1

pc1

pineapple chunk 1 9-7.jpg (327.66 KiB) Viewed 35978 times

pc1 top

pineapple chunk 1 9-7 top.jpg (319.4 KiB) Viewed 35978 times

Pineapple Chunk 2

pc2

pineapple chunk 2 9-7.jpg (161.32 KiB) Viewed 35978 times

pc2 top

pineapple chunk 2 9-7 top.jpg (288.48 KiB) Viewed 35978 times

Coming up next: I feel a transplant on the very near horizon. Like tomorrow probably for the big girls. I'd love to hear from the experienced soil farmers about this process. I've read that rooting hormone powder is good to sprinkle in the hole of the new pot before inserting the root ball. This seems a little unnecessary to me, but surely wouldn't hurt. I only have gel, so I'm thinking this step won't be crucial. Thoughts?

I'm familiar with the process of turning the pot upside down with the plant between my middle fingers, but the plants I've done it with were in moist potting soil, and the containers are very thin plastic. Root ball easily stayed together using that method. But transplanting these will be slightly different because the substrate is a different texture, it's more fluffy and light (hence no need for perlite), and blows around easily when dry. I think the two big girls have a great root ball going, but if anyone has tips on what transplanting looks like with firm plastic pots and dry/airy medium I'd really appreciate them.

Finally, I'm wanting to transplant all 4 of my final girls at the same time. I haven't seen roots poking out of MM2, and PC 1&2 yet, but surely they're not too far behind the big girls. If you had to pick today, which 1 plant would you get rid of? My thoughts are to get rid of PC 1, but I can't decide between her or PC 2.

Thanks for watching,
MC

I decided that they can go a couple more days to a week before I transplant them, so I'm holding off on that for the moment. I bought some Superthrive for the transplant process, and I'll start using it at the next watering.

Speaking of watering, I went down this morning to look at them, and the Incredible Bulk was wilted over a little, her lower leaves bleaching out a little and browning... she was really thirsty. I picked her up to verify, and she was light as a feather. I fed her and Money Maker #1 distilled water only (in a hurry out the door to work, no time to pH etc...) She looked much better this afternoon and evening. I removed the brown and damaged foliage, that which was touching the edges of the container anyway, and the cotyledons from both of them as well. The IB, and MM1 were the only 2 plants that I pruned today. It was a very minor pruning, their first defoliation will happen after transplant shock.

The CO2 ran out this morning as well. It actually went really fast once I opened the vent at the bottom of the tent, owing to the fact that CO2 is heavier than air and probably just all dribbled out. I closed the vent, and replaced the tank, leaving only the two open "chimney" vents in the top. The temperature has maintained 87*F steady, which with CO2 should be fine.

Here are the girls, and their heights:


Incredible Bulk

Incredible Bulk

ib.jpg (289.68 KiB) Viewed 35966 times

Money Maker #1

Money Maker 1

mm1.jpg (267.04 KiB) Viewed 35966 times

Money Maker #2

Money Maker 2

mm2.jpg (303.48 KiB) Viewed 35966 times

Pineapple Chunk #1

Pineapple Chunk 1

pc1.jpg (281.97 KiB) Viewed 35966 times

Pineapple Chunk #2

Pineapple Chunk 2

pc2.jpg (273.28 KiB) Viewed 35966 times

They're getting bigger, and much stronger. The diameter of the main stem on the two largest plants is really pretty amazing to me! I'm realizing that I will not be able to pull them out individually for photography forever, and since the Solarstorm 880 is so amazingly bright, and amazingly purple, I decided to install a couple undercabinet fluorescent fixtures on the side supports of my grow module. That way, I can turn off the Solarstorm and take not-so-purple photos. Just for you ledgrowlightforum.com! You're welcome.


And here is a family shot of all the girls, day 29 from seed. I've decided it'll be Pineapple Chunk #1 that doesn't make the final garden, but I have found her a good home, where she will be donated with the best of wishes and hope for a fruitful life for her and her grower. So I don't have to kill her!


Almost midnight here. Night y'all.
MC