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LED needs altered grow conditions?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:30 pm
by painterwand
i have one of my crazy kid thoughts here, but here goes,

If you could get a plant (mmj) to grow horizontally by having the light horizontal from the pot, topped it with four branches, then topped those branches, and at that time, switched to flower and back to vertical, would you get equal buds from the `lower` bud sites as the tip of the branches?

I mean this would pretty much still be ScrOG? without growing vertical until flower

My whole reasoning, why waste the lower shoots because of low light? Have you ever thought the reason why we dont get 1g/watt is because were stuck in a HID rut and still waste the lower shoots?

Have you seen anyone doing this?

Re: LED needs altered grow conditions?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:42 am
by SisterMaryElephant
You do seem to be describing the basic theory behind SCROG except you want to use side-lighting rather than top-lighting during veg, I think.

The problems is, while plants DO grow towards light, they also grow vertically so they won't just make a 90 degree turn and stop growing up, still requiring tying or a net (like SCROG) and you'll also light far less canopy from the side than you would the top. SCROG exists to try to get more light to more nodes than growing taller untrained plants but LED growers DO grow SCROG so the problems with LED yield isn't because people don't SCROG. Most experience with LED may be the key to unlocking better LED yield but I think it's going to need more powerful diodes to catch up to HID penetration power.

Re: LED needs altered grow conditions?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:01 am
by painterwand
Yeah i realize this would basically be scrog, but my theory was, the plant has the bud sites, so why take them away?

I know they would grow a little upwards, but it would only be the amount the plant was going to grow wide, maybe a foot, but training could take those four main arms to almost look like a pitchfork with 10 or so bud sites on each branch,

I think Maybe the stretch seen in flower is from the extra nutes available from removing the lower sites, so if you could use every site, Maybe less stretch, but my idea was that the bud sites closer to the soil would be getting more nutients than the top because of the bigger stalk and even light spread, possibly giving bigger buds closer to the soil than the tips of the plant, but i have never seen someone grow like this..

Like i said it one of my crazy kid thoughts, but isnt that what made hard stand up taco shells ;) I mean everyone talks about how LED needs less water, nutes and space, but noone changed the HID ways....

Re: LED needs altered grow conditions?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:57 pm
by painterwand
DSCF3564.JPG
top view
DSCF3564.JPG (96.02 KiB) Viewed 7048 times

DSCF3564.JPG
top view
DSCF3564.JPG (96.02 KiB) Viewed 7048 times

Re: LED needs altered grow conditions?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:10 pm
by painterwand
alright, now explaining these, dont know why it double uploaded the top view one... only did the upload once.. :/ oh well

the top view shows how i would train the arms for flower and the other shows how the whole grow will work, the light at the side for veg, not sure how much of the screen should be full but thats something to work out eventually,

basically the four branches would be screened down in flower with a 3x3 2" square net across it,

The right hand side is the ground, left is the roof

but what i am wondering is if my hypothesis for the bigger buds closer to the stalk may be possible right?

Re: LED needs altered grow conditions?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:41 pm
by SisterMaryElephant
1) Not everyone lollipops their SCROG and if they grow long enough to fill the screen then they already have a lot of "bud sites" for that area.

2) Lollipopping (or not) will have no effect on flowering stretch.

3) Side lighting is better for the tree style grows than flat SCROG/SOG type grows.

Imagine your head is a grow light and the direction your eyes point is the direction the light goes. Now look at a plate or a Frisbee (which represents your "flat 4 branch/arms" plant) from the side (your side lighting idea) vs the top (top-down lighting) and tell me which would get/use more light...


4) I'm not positive that LED plants use much less water, nutrients or space...unless you want even less yield too.


The better the penetration and the more even the canopy the better the plants will be able to get the light where they need it. IMHO, your idea will produce less than SCROG due to the side-lighting choice. Other than that; it basically IS SCROG without lollipopping. You're always free to try it if you still think it's a good idea; I love to be proven wrong. :D


Hope that helps...

Re: LED needs altered grow conditions?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:43 pm
by ScotePote
Painterwand
This is my first visit or Ide have let you know. Its going good I guess. I have an 800W top and 400W side in the style you mentioned since end of November 2013.
First real indoor venture but I can vouch to dense plants with tight flowering sights and little stretching.

I made some proximatey errors and burnt some leaves early on. transplanting was late. dirt was hard and compact before transplant. Struggling but learning, the hard way.
Ive been logging photos.
I supplement with a 125W cfl bulb on the far side and move them around occasionally for more balanced growth.

This is a mystery strain. 12 plants and #13 is a Freedom 35 destined for motherhood. All soil. I used a nice loose mix on transplant with perlite, vermiculite, and a standard potting soilless mix plus one bag of worm castings and a sprinkle of guano.

I just out-ed 3 males and that takes me to 9 plus the F35.

I am preparing to to make the next batch expanded clay SCROG Freedom 35's. Mayyyyy in include Ozone in that one but apprehensive to mix on that scale. Ozone being a Chemdawg giant cousin and Freedom 35 is a quick to flower 35 days to flower variety.
On that note I germinated the F35 two weeks after the mystery girls and shes almost caught up to her visibly more sativa sisters.

Anyways cat, stay in touch somehow and Ill provide some more details and perhaps a lil gro sho..

Re: LED needs altered grow conditions?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:48 pm
by ScotePote
Oh yes and I topped one as you stated on the side just because she ( as it turned out he) had a fantastic branch nearly equal to the top. she took well and the topped branch is growning well. Ill snapshot it before destroying him.

Re: LED needs altered grow conditions?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:35 pm
by SisterMaryElephant
Welcome to the forums!

He hasn't posted since March of last year so you're really only digging up a 9 month old dead topic but since you're doing a similar experiment, I'll let it go. Normally we don't allow necroposting... ;)


SME

Re: LED needs altered grow conditions?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:41 pm
by ScotePote
Pardon me, wasnt checking time lines.
Should I repost some of this in a new thread?
Any suggestions would be welcomed, thanks.