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Suggestions for a LED setup

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:18 am
by ifof
I am growing in a 32"X60" tent. I am looking at switching from a 600W MH/HPS set-up to LED. Would it be better to go with the rectangular light set-up? Or am I looking at 2 or 3 UFO types? I would like to have enough LED power to stay between 400W and 600W HID.

Re: Suggestions for a LED setup

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:34 pm
by SisterMaryElephant
I'm not the LED expert here but with a 5' wide tent I'd say you'd need at least 2 LED lights to cover that area properly, maybe 3 if you use smaller LEDS. I'll let others suggest which lights and what size. It might help if they know how tall you generally finish flowering at.

Good luck...

Re: Suggestions for a LED setup

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:40 pm
by SavageBelief
Hey there. I'm new to the led game myself but I'll try to answer.

When you say an led setup equivalent to a 400-600 Watt HPS I assume you're talking about coverage for your growing area.
The manufacturer sites I've been to all have coverage specs for their different setups.

Now I don't mean to sound like a prosource shill here, but its the numbers I remember.

A UFO 90w will cover 4x4 for veg and flowering
The 180 I think is 5x5. Your setup sound more like you'll need either 2 90's or a 350, which I think is a rectangle.

Anyway. If you look up one light on their site, all the way at the bottom they have grids with growing area an the light they recommend.

Re: Suggestions for a LED setup

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:58 pm
by SisterMaryElephant
Sorry, but neither of those lights will cover an area that big. Even the $2000.00, 800W SolarStorm LED will only cover 4x4 in flower according to their rep at the Expo.

I'd guess (and I'm not expert either) that he'd need 4x90w, 3x180w or 2x320w for that area. I'm sure one of the experts will provide more accurate advice than I can with LED.

600w HPS in a 5' wide tent is pushing it too, imo. For my 1000w HPS lights, I use 4x5. For 600w, I'd use 3x4 and I'd avoid anything smaller unless it was a small MH for clones, etc.


YMMV...

Re: Suggestions for a LED setup

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:56 am
by SavageBelief
That may be true Sis. Those numbers are from the prosource website. What they say, and what reality is, may be two different things.

I remember reading a suggestion of taking a couple smaller lights and mounting them low and aiming sideways at the stems to get where the top lights don't penetrate.

Re: Suggestions for a LED setup

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:58 pm
by SisterMaryElephant
Yeah, I visited the website and I'm not buying those coverage areas.

Even the 4x4 spec on the 800w SolarStorm is based on a 18"-24" above the plant height, which seems a little high for me.
http://californialightworks.com/uploads/2/9/2/4/2924177/solarstormspecs.pdf

Prosource claims 4x4 on the 350 at "6 - 18 inches." One of these things is not like the other. Personally, I'm just not sold on LED, for various reasons, yet.


YMMV....

Re: Suggestions for a LED setup

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:23 am
by ifof
Sorry all. I left the height of the tent out of my numbers.

The overall dimensions are 32" x 60" X 77" high. I only use an area 32" X 48" for growing using the remaining space for supplies and equipment. I try to stick with plants that mature at 5' or less.

It is looking more an more like I am going to be using a hybrid system for some time as I add more LED lights. Buying a couple grand of LEDs is just not in my monthly budget. But, I can buy a UFO type a month. Hopefully 180 watts of LED light along with my 600w HID will be enough to take my seedlings through Veg. I can add in 1 or 2 more by flowering time.

ifof

Re: Suggestions for a LED setup

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:37 pm
by SisterMaryElephant
5 foot plants from the floor or from the top of the grow medium? From the top of the medium would definitely rule out the 90w LED lights. 1w LEDs just don't have the penetration required for plants that tall. I'm not even sure that the 3w LEDs will work on a 5 foot plant but they'd do better than 1w LEDs.

With your used (32" x 48") grow space area, however, the 600w HPS should be enough by itself anyway, that's 60w per square foot and the area is properly shaped. Adding LEDs will increase your amount of light/sq foot but I would only add one per grow cycle to see if it becomes too much. If you plan to replace the 600w light or use the entire tent, eventually, then you will need more LED lights. According to a video that Mathew once linked, the 180W Illuminator Jumbo UFOs should be placed 2 feet apart so 2 will do your 32x48 space, more might be overkill but with LED overkill might be better, especially if they overstate their coverage area.

3x180w = 540w + $1,800.00

Re: Suggestions for a LED setup

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:16 pm
by nickgreen
The 90W Illuminators are good lights and their coverage areas are accurate . . . let me explain.

If you look on the page:
http://www.prosourceworldwide.com/Illuminator-90W-UFO-LED-Grow-Lights-p/illuminator%20ufo%2090w.htm

You will see that the coverage area of 4x4 is for vegetative growth while the max coverage area for flower is 2x2 . . . so when it comes to outfitting your space, just focus on the flowering coverage and go from there. Each 2x2 area needs at least a 90W and can take up to the 180W for a 2x2 - it just depends on the type of results you are looking for.

With LED, I like at least 40W per square foot for commercial grade results.

Re: Suggestions for a LED setup

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:05 am
by SisterMaryElephant
Well Nick (How's the baby, did he or she arrive yet?), as I've said, when it comes to LED I'm no expert but I'm getting a lot of conflicting information and it's easier to believe, for me, that prosource is overstating their coverage than other explanations.

I'll explain further:

As you said, prosource's own website says, (for flower) 90w for 2x2, 180w for 3x3, 350w for 4x4 and 700w for 6x4.

However, Mathew linked a video that's clearly a prosource commercial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxPvN9ke ... r_embedded
...uploaded to youtube by "ProSourceWorldwide" which features a big grower with 400 180w Illuminators ($240,000 at retail prices) and at 7:32 he says the lights should be 14 inches above the plants which is in the range that prosource lists for the 180w...but at 7:37 he says they should be 2 feet apart, for flowering, which of course is 2x2, 4 sq feet, and 45w/sq foot. A 90w at the same area (which prosource claims) would only be 22.5w/sq foot.

That's not all. California Lightworks, maker of the SolarStorm, says their 800w light covers a 4x4, in flower, which only uses 640w worth of LED in "flower mode" which equals 40w/sq foot.

Going back to prosource specs, they claim the 350w at 4x4 = 21.875w/sq foot and the 700w at 6x4 = 29.16w/sq foot. So none of prosource's own specs get close to the 40w/sq foot that you and the guy in the video likes and, personally, I'd even prefer more. While you rightfully say that you can use a 180w in a 2x2, you'd HAVE to use the bigger light if you want to grow decent medicine which conflicts with the website claims. You'd want more w/sq foot (like HID) if you want the highest (no pun intended) quality.

Clearly, imho, prosource is overstating their coverage for their lights on their website or they're quoting specs for tomatoes or lettuce. I don't think 20-30w/sq foot is cutting it, I'm not even sure that I like 40-45w/sq foot.

At the current prices for LED and the amount of lights needed to cover an area that can be covered much cheaper by HID (I prefer 1000w HPS lights) even accounting for other needed equipment and energy, it would take 10-15 years to reach a point of ROI which is the lifespan of LED lights, assuming you don't burn out a few diodes aver the years. I'm sorry, I know this is a LED forum, but they're just not ready to replace HID in the bang-for-buck show yet.

Obviously, this is *just* MY opinion and I readily admit no personal, hands-on, growing experience with LED but I have a lot of outdoor and HID grows under my belt so I do know something about the crop and hydroponics in general. As I told Mathew there are some advantages of LED grows, many touched upon in the video. I think when the individual diodes are pushing 7-10w each, stable, AND a lot cheaper, it'll be a good alternative to HID...just not today.

Hope that helps...