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Black Dog LED

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:34 pm
by Lycanthrope
Does anyone have or know about Black Dog LED's? I'm interested in the BD - 450.
I grow two plants (indicas) at a time in a 4X4 tent

Re: Black Dog LED

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:19 pm
by SisterMaryElephant
We've had a couple of people ask about BD lights and, based on my research, I'm not a big fan. The lights themselves might be fine but they have a lot of misleading/bad information on their website which raises red-flags for me. If their lights are so good, then why bullshit people?

If you buy one you can start a journal in the Grow Journals section and we'll help you if we can. ;)

Re: Black Dog LED

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:36 pm
by Growstress
Growershouse did an unboxing review and a PAR test video.

I cant tell if BD is being purposefully shady with being so secretive about their diodes, or if they are just trying to protect their developments from chinese knockoff makers. Either way, I agree, it doesnt instill alot of confidence in the product. Just like the rest of these manufacturers making wild claims about how many 1000'sw their LED replace.

However, PAR readings don't lie.

Re: Black Dog LED

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:04 am
by SisterMaryElephant
It's not just their lack of diode info that bothers me.

Par readings don't lie but many manufactures/retailers make "shady" claims based on par readings..like how many 1000w HID lights a smaller LED light can replace. :D

Par is pretty useless for comparing different lights, imho. Good for sales though I guess... :lol:

Re: Black Dog LED

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:27 pm
by Growstress
SisterMaryElephant wrote:Par is pretty useless for comparing different lights, imho. Good for sales though I guess... :lol:



How do you figure that?

PAR is photosynthetically active radiation” - the radiation (light) that is used by plants for photosynthesis.

A PAR reading tells you exactly how many micromols are being output by a light, on its foot print.

So yes you can actively compare those readings against another fixtures readings to see how much usable photosynthetically availble radiation is being output. If the testing is done from the same distances in the same setting, there is no reason why PAR isn't one of the more important data points in choosing a light particularly an LED.

Re: Black Dog LED

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:05 pm
by SisterMaryElephant
Well, I've had this debate before but we can do it again. ;)

I know what PAR is and what it measures but the question is: do the measurements matter in the real world? The answer is: no, it doesn't.

The problem with PAR is that it only measures specific spectral wavelengths between 400-700nm. That would be fine if everything fit in that range but most grow lights put out more than just 400-700nm and plants actually use more than 400-700nm despite a lot of sales propaganda and outdated science.

If PAR really mattered then it would be easy to say that a 650w (actual draw) LED light that has the same PAR rating will yield and perform the same as a 1000w HPS light, right? In fact, that's what a lot of LED manufactures claim, based on PAR. The problem is that real world results show that it's not true. A 650w (actual draw) LED light is actually closer to 600w HPS in results and even that depends on grow styles.

Why is that? It's because, in part, LED lights lack the penetration power that large HID lights have despite having a higher PAR rating. It's also because plants use spectra that many LED grow lights don't provide and that aren't measured by PAR readings.

Even among (maybe even especially among) LED lights PAR is useless because different LED lights use different spectra, some out of the 400-700nm that PAR uses. Some LED lights are only red and blue some go as high as 16 wavelengths including IR and UV which are not measured by PAR.

This is why high powered HID lights beat LED lights that have as much or more PAR than they do every time. That is why PAR is little more than a sales tool used by LED manufactures and retailers to try to justify the high cost of the lights and compete with proven HID systems that cost less and perform better.

Show me the low powered LED light that can out perform a 1000w HPS and I'll change my mind but such a light does not exist...so far. We have a lot of journals here and none back up the LED manufacturers claims that are based on PAR.


Hope that helps... ;)

Re: Black Dog LED

PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:40 pm
by Heisenberg
The black dog units are 5wled, my friend is using the 750wxl, in a 4x4, try for 90days kinda thinks. it looks like hes going to get killer results, ill let you know. I do like that the uv runs all the time, and the IR.

•High Output 5w LEDs
•750 true watts—1500 LED watts!
•Exclusive square housing for larger, uniform square footprint
•Interior volume added to housing for improved thermal dissipation
•Black Dog LED’s Phyto-genesis Spectrum™—perfectly tuned for vegetative and flowering cycles
•True full spectrum ranging from UVA to IR for ultimate flowering and vegetative plant cycles
•Commercial Grade Components
•Largest heat sinks in the industry for superior cooling and increased LED life
•Heavy duty vinyl coated cable and D-ring light hangers
•Metal ratcheting adjustable 6-foot light hangers
•Limited Lifetime Warranty

These are the specs from the website, lifetime warranty's nice too, so if it dips in performance send it back

Plus to get optimum results with hid, you would run 1000w sodium and a 600hps to get blue and red, but your still missing uv, glass absorbs uv, when you place those bulbs in the glass tubs or cooled hoods it barley gives out any. I'm really hoping the led technology gets there, because if you just want to run a small show, like a 4x4 having to have 1600 watts of power and all the hvac, inline fans, air conditioning, and changing your bulbs all the time.

If what they say is true and they do last 5-10 years, no one could possibly know this yet? but in 5 years if my light still works like they say it does well worth the money. They do back it up with a warranty so it makes me feel better about taking a risk

Not to mention I crop will pay off your light and then some, the roi on grows so insanely high. youl make double probably on your first crop, with the high end units, I don't see much use for the 100-400w les's unless you have multiple, or just doing one in a closet or something

you have to go big or go home with led unfortunately,

Re: Black Dog LED

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:23 pm
by SisterMaryElephant
One of my local hydroponics shops sells BD lights and one of the guys there runs the heavyd grow show that BD uses for testimonial but they tell it a little different at the hydro store. They say that despite the claims or implications on the website that the 600w BD LED light performed about the same, but with less penetration, as a 600w HID. They dismiss the idea that larger HID lights can be replaced with smaller LED lights for now.

I can understand that having UV/IR led's might sound good on paper, there was an interview with George at CLW and he explained why using LED for uvb was a bad idea for them.
"Nate: Your website mentions that LEDs can’t really be used to produce UVB light. Could you explain why this is?

George: To be exact, we said LEDs cannot be used to produce UVB cost effectively. In our research we did find a few LED based solutions for UVB. With our T8 based solution, we can produce around 20 uW/cm2 of UVB from a 24” distance. To generate the same level of UVB with a LED based system would have increased the cost of the SolarStorm by 50%. The main reason we believe LED based UVB diodes are so expensive is because they are used for very special applications and are not mass produced yet. Fluorescent based UVB lights have high volume applications in the tanning and the indoor desert reptile industries and are therefore much more affordable today."

Perhaps costs are coming down or perhaps BD doesn't have enough uvb. *shrug*

Re: Black Dog LED

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:08 am
by smoke342
Blackdog Led is a scam. Just look at their facebook pictures all you see is semi frosty under developed buds that for some reason the owner is proud of.

The owner Corey was fired from Custom Spectrum LED in 2010 for attempted fraud so he went on to start his own company. He totally copied their spectrum but has been too stupid to figure out not only do uv/ir damage plants significantly impacting yield but leds in general get much lower yields than hid while costing much more.

Corey doesn't care as he is a selfish megalomaniac scam artist looking to do nothing but find more people to rip off with inferior led technology. The reason his lights use more energy is their divers are only 70% energy effiicient where the good ones are 99%.

I have a pile of 864w 6w leds that outperform his 2x but i havent touched them in years besides once where a they failed a hps comparison test.

Moral of the story this scam/ con artist only cares about ripping more people off and doesnt.give a shit he is selling/marketing pathetic bogus lights. I saw a test light of his at family hydroponics in boulder and the plants leaves were curling and it was dying lol i told them it was because of the uv/ir and they assured me it was because of the nutes they were using lol took the.display down next time i was in. Plants looked spindly and clawing just like all the ones on his facebook lol...The reason no one has has figured it out is most of his customers are ignorant noobs tricked by his/led marketing. I hope one of his ripped off customers finds him and kills him...20 free 900w leds better than his $2000 ones for any volunteers.