Page 1 of 2

Pre-planning the new LED grow, tons of new variables

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:21 pm
by MissingCow
Hi everyone,

I'm happy to be here, after many months of reading about LED grow technology, I've decided to try them out and am excited to do so. Long post ahead, so here's the back story :P

Prior to this grow, I have been in a hydro DWC system with 1k HPS light per plant, grown under a SCROG. My results have been decent in terms of yield (best harvest was 21 oz, average around 11-12) however I have not been impressed with the final product, both in terms of trichrome coverage, density, visual appeal... The list goes on and on. Now, I'll just blame poor genetics from an unreliable source(clones brought in), but I now want to grow the absolute best I can - high density, massively frosted buds. I am not interested in breaking yield records, but I do have goals.

So, having been accepted into the CLW GFP, I will be joyfully testing a SolarStorm 880 in a brand new setup. Compared to my previous 6 grows, this one is a completely different beast, and I'm still in the design/implementation phase, however purchases have already been made, so there is not a lot I can change right now, but minor tweaks and advice would be much appreciated!

Here's the new setup:
Light: CLW SS880
Grow space: 8x4 tent with 4x4 grow module installed in center (explained below)
CO2: tank fed halo delivery system. CO2 will be shut off 1 hour before lights off to allow plants to photosynthesize CO2 into O2 for nighttime root grow
Media: Canna terra professional plus in 10 gal smart pots
Nutrients: Canna Bio line, vega, flora, boost and microrhiza
Water: hand watered, drain to waste
Humidity: kept in check with dehumidifier in tent
AC: none - I will be sealing the tent as much as possible to allow CO2 enrichment. It seems the ideal temperature is somewhere between 85 to 95 degrees. (can anyone verify this?) I may need to add supplemental heat :shock: if the light and dehumidifier can't crank it that high. Weird saying that.
Air exhaust/fresh air intake: none, see above
number of plants: 4
Genetics: [Barney's Pineapple Chunk][Money Maker][Dr Krippling Incredible Bulk][Royal Queen Critical] all feminized
Air circulation: (2) oscillating fans on either side of grow module, blowing upwards through canopy. The tent will also be fitted with a carbon scrubber on one side of the grow module, blowing air to the other side of the tent for smell and circulation.
Grow Module I have constructed a 4'x4'x6.5' frame out of PVC that should fit nicely in the direct center of my tent. This entire structure is wrapped in panda film, except the bottom of either side where the oscillating fans are to blow. Carbon filter, dehumidifier, and oscillating fans are on either side of this module in the 8'x4' tent. I'll try to post a picture of the module later on, it says my file is too big and I'm too tired to change it now.

I am shooting for .67 grams per watt (actual) from this grow. That equates to 15 oz from the 4 plants. Am I crazy? Maybe. Time will tell.

In the mean time, before I get this set up, I am breaking down my previous grow. I will use the same room, but a new tent and all new equipment (except the carbon scrubber). The problem is a powdery mildew infection on my last plant I harvested brought in on a clone from an unreliable source. After removing everything for the room, I will be spraying and scrubbing everything down with a bleach/h2o2 solution and starting with fresh components (again except the carbon scrubber. I will replace the prefilter on this, and bleach the heck outta it, but I can't afford another one right now. See above. :lol: so what else can I do? Am I relatively safe with the above precautions and the majority of new equipment?

Happy to be here, and to learn from so many master gardeners.

Any feedback or tips would be greatly appreciated!

Re: Pre-planning the new LED grow, tons of new variables

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:25 pm
by MissingCow
Here are a couple photos of the completed grow module. The panda film has now been attached with heavy duty Velcro for easy accessibility on all sides.

I'm continuing to clean the room in preparation for the new tent (which just arrived today). I hope to have everything set up by this weekend.

Re: Pre-planning the new LED grow, tons of new variables

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:35 pm
by rkymtnman
hey,

i think the only thing i would change would be the size of the smart pots and the size of your inner grow area. i'd shoot for 75 w/sqft with your new SS880. could you make it 3x3 instead? and figure out what size pot you'ld need for 4 plants.

welcome to the world of LED. if i were you, i'd go back to the DWC. it will blow away any soil grow.

good luck! RKY

Re: Pre-planning the new LED grow, tons of new variables

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:25 am
by MissingCow
rkymtnman wrote:hey,

i think the only thing i would change would be the size of the smart pots and the size of your inner grow area. i'd shoot for 75 w/sqft with your new SS880. could you make it 3x3 instead? and figure out what size pot you'ld need for 4 plants.

welcome to the world of LED. if i were you, i'd go back to the DWC. it will blow away any soil grow.

good luck! RKY


Hey RKY

Thanks for your input. I completely agree with you on the size of the grow area. I'm kicking myself now for designing the thing based on manufacturer claims instead of reading the GFP journals first... But to change that would be a pretty major modification at this point.

I'm planning to grow these 4 plants under a SCROG to spread them out as horizontally and evenly as possible. I could theoretically build a 3x3 square into my 4x4 SCROG frame, then stretch he panda film diagonally from the top 4x4 frame to the bottom 3x3 SCROG... Forming a bit of a parabolic effect onto the plants below.

He more I think about it though, the more I feel like I'd like to give this light a proper test, based on what the light is supposed to do according to the manufacturer. Also, 1000w HPS will do 4x4 area, correct? If this light fails to perform to my expectations, 1000w HPS will be my eventual choice.

As far as the 10gal smart pots, I'm curious why you think they would be he wrong size. Too small? Too big? I was hoping for a large root mass, so plenty of room to grow. I am new to the soil thing though, so I'll be interested to see what size you think would be good.

DWC has treated me well enough. It's just that... Well I'm assuming from your username has something to do with being in the most free state of the US? Me too! So I'm sure you know the value (or perceived value) that the words "organic" and "soil grown" have to hypothetical customers around here... People love it. I say "hypothetical" because I only grow for myself, and since I'm my only customer, and since I'm willing to pay more for organic soil grown at the dispensary... Well I have to cater to my one and only client. Me. :lol:

That and I already bought the soil. :roll:

However, I'll be going back to DWC if this grow truly disappoints me. For sure. It'll be easily convertible if I need it.

Thanks again!

Re: Pre-planning the new LED grow, tons of new variables

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:03 pm
by rkymtnman
Hey MC,

yep, I'm in CO. about an hour west of Co Springs.

here's my reasoning for both. 4x4 16sqft for actual watts of 680 (bloom mode w/uv on) is only 42 watts/sqft. 50 is the bare min for good tight buds/product. even if you went 3.5x3.5 would be better.

i'm doing 2 plants in soil now as i transition from RDWC to drain to waste in Coco. I had 10 gal smart pots on hand so I used them. a good rule of thumb is 1gal per foot of plant. i'm not an expert in soil but you are supposed to go up in pot size as the plant grows and then leave it in the final pot for all of flower. i just harvested one plant yesterday and the root ball was fairly small in the 10 gal pot. you could probably do fine with 3 gal pots. max i would go would be 5 gal.

you'll be pleased with the results from the SS. i started doing a hybrid grow last time and i liked the results. i used the LED for all of grow and 3 weeks into flower. then i brought in a 600HPS and some UVB to finish them up. i think that is my plan for now on.

Re: Pre-planning the new LED grow, tons of new variables

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:27 am
by MissingCow
Well I've been cleaning the room, bleach and h2o2 in separate applications (I wouldn't mix the two, I've read they're a bad combination) and have kept he dehumidifier running in the room keeping it at 35 RH for the last 3 days. I think I'm as safe as I can be on the powdery mildew issue, but the constant air circulation in the tent should allow higher RH during veg without allowing the PM a place to settle down if there are any spores left floating around.

Installed the tent, sink, and drain to waste attachment yesterday. I'll upload some pics when I get the grow module done.

rkymtnman wrote:Hey MC,

yep, I'm in CO. about an hour west of Co Springs.

here's my reasoning for both. 4x4 16sqft for actual watts of 680 (bloom mode w/uv on) is only 42 watts/sqft. 50 is the bare min for good tight buds/product. even if you went 3.5x3.5 would be better.

i'm doing 2 plants in soil now as i transition from RDWC to drain to waste in Coco. I had 10 gal smart pots on hand so I used them. a good rule of thumb is 1gal per foot of plant. i'm not an expert in soil but you are supposed to go up in pot size as the plant grows and then leave it in the final pot for all of flower. i just harvested one plant yesterday and the root ball was fairly small in the 10 gal pot. you could probably do fine with 3 gal pots. max i would go would be 5 gal.

you'll be pleased with the results from the SS. i started doing a hybrid grow last time and i liked the results. i used the LED for all of grow and 3 weeks into flower. then i brought in a 600HPS and some UVB to finish them up. i think that is my plan for now on.


Awesome, well hello from the north front range.

You know, I totally agree with you on the square footage. I'm actually going to chop the frame down to 3.5 x 3.5 now. That'll give 55.5 w/ft2, and allow a good balance of space. I'm not going to take it all the way to 3x3 though because that's the size of my grow tray and I want some space on the side.

Do you think fitting 4 plants in a 3.5x3.5 space will still be possible?

Thanks for your input on both! I might return the smart pots I have if you think it's worth it... But like everything else I bought them already when I posted. Oops.

Re: Pre-planning the new LED grow, tons of new variables

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:54 am
by rkymtnman
yep, my space is 3x4 and i've had 4 pretty large plants in it. my last grow when i was using HPS to finish them up, they were all about 3.5 to 4 ft tall.

with the LED, you'd be better off to try to keep them smaller. if they finished around 2 to 3 ft would be perfect. the SCROG should help alot too. it won't give you the same penetration that you were used to with a 1k HPS.

as for the pots, they should fit. i could fit 4 10gal in my area. that call is up to you. i don't have enough experience in soil to offer better info.

Re: Pre-planning the new LED grow, tons of new variables

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:37 am
by SisterMaryElephant
Welcome to the forums MissingCow!

Since RKY has helped with room size (I don't count the UVB watts though) and other tips, looks like you're in good hands... ;)


SME

Re: Pre-planning the new LED grow, tons of new variables

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:33 pm
by MissingCow
rkymtnman wrote:yep, my space is 3x4 and i've had 4 pretty large plants in it. my last grow when i was using HPS to finish them up, they were all about 3.5 to 4 ft tall.

with the LED, you'd be better off to try to keep them smaller. if they finished around 2 to 3 ft would be perfect. the SCROG should help alot too. it won't give you the same penetration that you were used to with a 1k HPS.

as for the pots, they should fit. i could fit 4 10gal in my area. that call is up to you. i don't have enough experience in soil to offer better info.


Awesome, great to know. Thanks for the tips, I hope you stop by the grow journal once it's all up and running (hopefully this week!)

SisterMaryElephant wrote:Welcome to the forums MissingCow!

Since RKY has helped with room size (I don't count the UVB watts though) and other tips, looks like you're in good hands... ;)


SME


Hi SME,

Thanks for stopping by! I've been following your posts and advise for growers ever since I found this forum a year ago. You're right about UVB not counting too... So I'm at 650w/12.25 sqft = 53w/sqft I think. At just above 50, my fingers crossed are that it will be sufficient.

Well if not, worse case scenario I say Thank you very much for the trial to CLW and go back to 1k HPS. 81.6 ought to cut it.

I'm looking forward to your insight and opinions once the grow is underway.

Re: Pre-planning the new LED grow, tons of new variables

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:52 pm
by MissingCow
Today I had a chance to install the tent and assemble the grow module inside it. I cut the structure down to 3.5'x3.5' which works great because it fits waaaaay more handily in the tent. Turns out 48" doesn't fit into a 48" structure very well.

All the plumbing in the room is installed. You can see the drain to waste system in the first photo. I've been draining my DWC hydro system down this pipe all year but just had the Studor vent installed. Evidently water displaces air as it drains and needs a place to vent. The more you know.

This should work so, so much better than before. And it needs to, because the dehumidifier and table will both be permanently attached to this, eliminating my need to empty the dehumidifiers tank, and it will always be ready for watering.