LED Grow Light Forum

Hi everyone,
I'm a caregrower in WA state and I've been doing a lot of reading on your great forum lately. The idea of LED grow lights has held my interest for some time now. I always check up on the latest LED tech, but until now there has never been enough good evidence for me to take the plunge and buy a costly LED unit when a 1000w HPS is relatively cheap, and effective. But, now I think I've been convinced. The increasingly impressive results I'm seeing here, as well as other grow forums are just what I needed to see before making space in my garden for LED lighting.

My current garden consists of two 1000w Lumatek ballasts and bulbs with Blockbuster hoods that provide light for my 8'x4' garden. Two large plants are grown under each light in DWC buckets. Average yield per plant is 8oz, with larger strains yielding around 10.5oz, and smaller strains yielding as little as 6oz (Lavender ).

So, I'm just about ready for an upgrade. I have space in my grow room, and I want to add another 4x4' footprint (2 plants). My initial thought was to go for the ol' standard - 1000w digital ballast and HPS bulb. Total cost for a complete setup, $490 delivered. However, with 2000w of HPS already burning in my roughly 9'x13' room, my 6" centrifugal exhaust fan is just maintaining optimal temperature at full speed.

This makes my $490 upgrade a $1,690 upgrade, when I figure in the cost of a 12,000btu mini-split airconditioning unit. Plus the cost of operating another inefficient 1000w bulb, and running an AC unit to cool it back down. If I upgrade, overall production will rise, but efficiency will suffer.

The solution? Perhaps it's time to give LED lighting a shot. With some creative ducting work I should be able to increase air flow through the grow room from the surrounding basement to maintain 82 degrees without an airconditioner. The LED panel could be placed between the two existing HPS hoods with the plants rotated daily so that they get plenty of exposure to both LED and HPS.

But of course, the scientist in me needs to test LEDs out by themselves before he'll believe they really work. My initial LED grow will be separated from my HPS grow area so that I can determine just how effective these lights really are. All conditions will be kept the same, and I will run an identical clone through the HPS area at the same time for comparison.

I'm in the process of sifting through all of the information available in order to decide which LED unit to purchase. The main contenders seem to be: Prosource Worldwide (Chinese manufacture, good value), Lumigrow (USA manufacture, expensive), and California Lightworks (USA manufacture, less expensive). The SolarStorm series from CA Lightworks seems to be the favorite around this forum, and it looks like the 800w version might have a larger footprint than the 650w Lumigrow. Of course I saw CA Lightworks' grower discount program mentioned on this forum so I signed up for a documented test grow of their 400w unit. I think their 800w unit would fit my grow space better, but who could pass up an opportunity like that?

I'm interested to hear everyone's input on which LED manufacturer is best. Or is there one that is a better value and another that's a better performer? Is there another good company that I should be looking at too? Sorry for the extremely long post! I've attached some pics from a few of my past grows. Enjoy!

Welcome to the forums!

(I had to move your post to the grow journals forum and remove the links, we don't advertise other forums or hydro stores because we've had way too many spammers lately.)

I've been researching LED lights for many years and I'm most impressed with the SolarStorm 800w by CLW. It's well made and the service is awesome. (No, I don't work there nor get paid to say that)

That said, I'm not sure you're aware of some of the issues you'll face replacing 2kw HPS with LED.
1) You'll need more LED light than you think to cover a 4x4 properly.
2) The 1kw lights penetrate better/deeper than ANY led light on the market, especially if you grow "trees."
3) You'll still have heat issues to deal with so you might need the AC either way.
4) The SS400w is not going to cover a 4x4 area in flower, even the SS800w is a little light for a 4x4, imho.


You may want to consider upgrading your 6" fan to an 8" fan and using the 6" fan in the new space.

Feel free to ask questions, I'm sure a lot of people here can help...


SME

Thank you for moving my post and replying SisterMary. Sorry about the links.

I am aware of some the shortcomings of LED lighting, and I am prepared to work around them if possible. Frankly these shortcomings are the factor that had kept me from trying LEDs sooner. I figured that the 800w unit would barely cover 4'x4' with less penetration than HID, so if I end up testing the 400w unit it will be over a single plant and less than 3'x3'. I will also train for a thinner canopy, and veg only as long as necessary to begin vigorous growth.

As for heat, my game plan is to add another 6" centrifugal fan inline on my existing ducting to achieve higher cfm. The flower room is in the basement, so there is an abundant supply of cool air. It's just a matter of moving it through.

You may be right though, I could end up upgrading my exhaust to 8". That's still cheaper than buying and operating AC (but only if the LED lighting performs well, otherwise I'm wasting time, money, and energy).

Thanks again SisterMary. I like that you're willing to hand out reality checks despite being a forum moderator. It gives me a little more confidence in the results I see posted here for some reason.

Cheers,
Dave

As long as you're willing to make adjustments; LED lights will not grow big "trees" without a lot of supplemental side-lighting at least.

The *manufacturer* says that the SS800w will cover 4x4 in flower but I always suggest at least 50w/sqft. I've found that marketing claims and real life often conflict.

Yeah, I'd have to know more to make definite suggestions but if the 6" is barely handling the 2kw HPS then I'd upgrade to an 8" and use the 6" someplace else. YMMV...

I don't get paid to moderate nor do I work for CLW, all opinions are my own. LED lights can and do work in some situations but I'm still not convinced that they are worth the extra money. If they were MUCH cheaper LED might be cost effective. If you just want LED to have LED and don't mind the extra cost, feel free, they certainly can and do get results. I just contend that there are cheaper methods to get the same or better results.


That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

SME,
Here is an example of what I mean by a "thinner" canopy. My training technique consists of supercropping (aka High Stress Technique or HST), which allows me to spread the plant's branches out horizontally rather than vertically. This way I can gear the depth of the canopy to the light's penetration depth, and distribute light more evenly to the flowers. Under my 1000w HPS lights I use a roughly 12"-14" deep canopy. I will probably opt for an 8"-11" canopy for my initial LED grow, and adjust from there. You probably know all of this, but I do see a lot of "tree" style plants being grown in the grow journals and I think this might be contributing to low yields under LEDs.

I'm also not expecting any miracles. It will probably take a few growing cycles before I have figured out all of the quirks of LED lighting. I like to tinker with technology and observe growing cannabis plants though, so I'm happy to do it! Plus, if these lights end up being productive, they could save me a bundle in operating costs over HPS (my gf will like that!).

P.S. Please forgive the giant size of the plant in my pic. It's just the best example that I have in my flower room right now. My local dispensary gave me the seeds to try and its main stem stretched more than my clones usually do. I usually grow more numerous, compact plants. I'm crossing my fingers for a record-breaking harvest though!

Dave

By trees, I mean plants that are over 5 feet tall. 1000w HPS has more penetration power than any LED currently on the market. I've used supercropping and selective pruning during veg to give plants that "flattop" look too, it's very handy. Take a look at many of the completed grow journals here and you'll get an idea of what the CLW lights with the 5w diodes can do too.

Don't count on a smaller LED light getting the same results as a larger HID, that appears to be pure marketing hype. Most of the SS800w owners agree that it's about the same as a 600w HPS so energy savings will be minimal if at all.

Ah hah! Good point about the energy savings...

I wonder if their heat output is the same as a 600w HID too. That would make these LEDs just really expensive 600w lights!

What do you think of the claims that LEDs might increase bud density, potency, or trichome production? More marketing hype?

Dave

beefxer wrote:Ah hah! Good point about the energy savings...

I wonder if their heat output is the same as a 600w HID too. That would make these LEDs just really expensive 600w lights!

What do you think of the claims that LEDs might increase bud density, potency, or trichome production? More marketing hype?

Dave

I'm guessing that the SS800w is about the same heat load as a 400w uncooled HPS or about the same as a 600-1000w air cooled HPS. It's hard to tell for sure.

I guess that depends on what light you're comparing it to. Compared to the 1000w HPS, I'd say hype in regards to density. Trichome production is influenced by a number of factors like genetics, UVB and environmental. Potency is determined more by genetics, assuming that the plant has the right environmental variables. You have to be careful with the comparisons though, the SS series lights uses florescent supplemental lighting for UVB for example. So, that UVB boost has nothing to do with the LED part of the lights although it does factor in with the light as a whole.

Well, you've got me firmly back in the skeptics' camp. Buying an air conditioner and another HPS or two is starting to look like a keen investment decision...

... but I have to admit that part of me is still curious. I'll cross my fingers that I'm accepted into the SS400w test program so that I can try it out for myself. I might also wait to see what the next generation of LEDs has to offer.

Meanwhile, I'll be trying to figure out how I'm going to get 1.9g per watt from my HPS setup!

beefxer wrote:Well, you've got me firmly back in the skeptics' camp. Buying an air conditioner and another HPS or two is starting to look like a keen investment decision...

... but I have to admit that part of me is still curious. I'll cross my fingers that I'm accepted into the SS400w test program so that I can try it out for myself. I might also wait to see what the next generation of LEDs has to offer.

Meanwhile, I'll be trying to figure out how I'm going to get 1.9g per watt from my HPS setup!

You shouldn't be skeptical about whether or not they can grow meds, they can and do. My only thing is the cost/benefit analasys.

I'm sure that you'll get accepted in the GFP, if nothing else you might find a different use for that light. It's always worth a try as long as you can afford the experiment. If you don't have unreasonable expectations you shouldn't be disappointed.

I'd suggest working your way up to that 1.9 number...