LED Grow Light Forum

Solar Storm 400w LED Grow Light Evaluation
First of all, I would like to thank California Light Works (CLW) for allowing me to take part in their “Growers Feedback Program” (G.F.P.) This is my 1st use of L.E.D.’s to supply myself with Medicinal Marijuana.
NOTE: “I have maintained a currant Doctor’s Recommendation for its use for several years, and always do my best to know and obey the laws.”
I have used 1000w MH, 1000w HPS. My current set up is with H.O. T-5’s (3 fixtures 972W total) with mirrors to keep stray light reflected back into the canopy.. I started using the T-5’s because of issues I have controlling heat in my grow room. The T-5 lights have given me acceptable results with less heat.
I grow in a 7.5’x10’x8’ high room with a 4’x5’ grow area raised 1’ off the floor and slanted for drainage. I use a 1500w heater set at 72 degrees. (Comes on at night occasionally) When it does, it heats the room quickly, then shuts off till needed again.) A dehumidifier set to 55%, a 24” fan with a tube made with trash bags (bottoms cut off) taped together to exhaust hot air from the top of the room. It is controlled by a thermostat set at 82 degrees (on) and shuts off at 78 degrees. I also have a 1500 BTU Air Conditioner for the heat of summer or when using the 1000w lights. I use CO2.when the heat vent system / fresh air exchange isn’t doing too many air exchanges. If it is, I switch to the AC so I can use CO2 more effectively.
This will be my first experience with LED Grow Lights. I will be evaluating the Solar Storm 400w Led Grow Light. Once I decided I wanted to try this “new technology” for all its promises, I researched what I could. Most Lights available are from China, etc. I don’t want to pay the almost $200 shipping, or sending something back to China to get something fixed under a warranty/guarantee, etc. I would rather support American Products and Ingenuity, For instance, what attracted me to the Solar Storm is most, if not all, light spectrum are provided necessary for optimum growth at all stages. The Veg / Bloom switch and the UVB lights add options usually not available in a single light fixture. I would need multiple lights (maybe from many different manufacturers, or country’s) to accomplish what this light should be able to do. “I’ll find out !!!”
I will try to compare the success of my previous lighting arrangements with the effectiveness of the Solar Storm 400w.
The comparisons will include:
1. Effective Light Coverage
2. Growth / Health / Plants Life Cycle
3. Heat
4. Energy Savings
5. Quality of light fixture
6. Convenience
7. Yield
8. Finished Product
This grow, started on 11-8-12 with sprouted seeds planted in 6’ pots containing a mixture of ¼ peat, ¼ chicken crap, and 2/4 commercial planter mix. They are growing with T-5’s until I receive the (2) Solar Storms. Plants have been topped and are 6”-8” tall. My evaluation of the 400w Solar Storm will be mostly during flowering stage. There doesn’t seem to be much debate whether LED’s can Veg MJ, but the end result is most important to me. If these lights perform as expected, I will keep the lights and finish the remainder of the 90 day trail with clones in veg.

12-12-12
Day 1 with the new 400w lights. YEE HAA Now I can start taking picts.
The lights arrived so its time to get to work getting them hung.

First Impressions:

Apparent quality of Lights.
The lights arrived in perfect condition. The styrofoam used for shipping is easily broken when unpacking. (I wanted to keep it perfect in case the lights were returned.)
The lights seem great. They look good, work good, and were easy to set up.

Foot Print: (readings from standard light meter, Not PAR)
I am starting with 18” -24” from the light to the canopy. Using a standard light meter as a reference, I am trying to maintain a value of 8 for the tops. At 18” I get 8. At 24” I get 7.5. (The actual foot print seems to be about 2.5x2.5 or close to 3x3) The T-5’s best is a 7 and that is right against the bulb. Given the greater values and the greater percentage of correct spectrums with the Solar Storm 400w light, I might get the same effect with a 4 or 5 as I did with a 7 using fluorescence. BTW I get 9 from direct sun light.

Fan Noise:
Each light has 2 fans. They are quieter than any of the air circulating fans in the room.

I am attaching only 1 picture. It is looking from one end of the rope 6” mesh. As soon as I can determine M for F I will be going to 12/12 for flowering. I have a mix. 2 mother plants, one is Mandrin Passion and the other is LAOG. The rest are Green Crack/Blue Dream cross, or, Sour Diesel/Kryptonite cross. I am going to pick 8 females and 1 male after sexing the cuttings.
It should about 2 weeks for the 12/12. By then the plants should have grown another 8 inches or a foot.

We will see in the next reports picts.

Welcome to the forums!

That's a very detailed run down but I do have a couple of questions and comments...

(in no particular order)
1) Be careful using mirrors as reflectors because they can cause hot spots.
2) The T-5 lights and the 1000w HID lights are about opposite in terms of production so I expect that you might find the LED lights to be somewhere in between, assuming you have enough w/sqft.
3) What kind of "acceptable results" were you getting with either the T5's or the HID?
4) With only 2 SS400 lights, you have nearly 40% less watts and even less than CLW suggests, how do you plan to cover an area that's 20 sqft with only (31w/sqft) 620w?
5) I see that you are growing with a combination of seeds and clones from a mother plant, are you just growing seeds to get a mother of different genetics or are you doing it to breed new genetics?
6) How long do you need to flower each of your strains?
7) Do you run a perpetual harvest type setup, with a separate veg/clone area or do you use the same lights "full cycle?"

I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out but I suggest increasing the w/sqft if you want good results...


SME

Good evening,
The details in the first post were my effort to answer possible questions people might have. Once I started I couldnt stop. I must admit I am excited both for the expectation of excellent results and for having this forem to give my opinion.
Now for your questions.
First I used a 1000w MH from seed to flower. Then because of heat, I tried T-5's.The density and the quality are "NEARLY" as good as I was getting with the 1000w MH. I was getting about 2 oz per plant with MH. Using the T-5-s I get closet to 3 oz. The 2 oz from the MH is about 2 cups. The 3 oz from the T-5's is closer to a full quart.
Then always wanting bettger quality while using the least amount of elect., I tried the 1000w HPS during the winter for the "heater". I would move the ballast in and out of the room depending on outside temps. I also used it for the whole grow. I wasn't too impressed. I know I should have used both lights for the different phases of growth, but didnt. I was too lazy and didn't know enough. I am still learning.....
Now for the toughest question. #4. That is the exact question I am working on right now.
Maybe somebody knows and can fill me in. Until then, here is what I think is at least a guage that I can use in the future to deturmin minimum light requirements.
My "screen" is 4'x5'=20sq.ft. When I had the T-5's up, I had the 8 bulb on top which is 2'x4', the side lighting was kept about 6" away. That gave me 12sq. ft. which is only 6" less on all sides than the screen.
Anyway, I am thinking it goes something like this.
I have read that sunshine is about 5,000 lumins. If there about 20 lumins per watt. that would mean sunshine is 280w sq.ft. ???? WOW I am probably on the wrong track already. Anyway, since sun light is supposidly 23% blue 64w @ 400-500 nm, 26" Green 72w @ 500-600 nm, 26% Red 72w @ 600-700 nm and the last 25% is far red 70w @ 700-800 nm and the percentage of each spectrum that is utilized by plants puts the actual watts at closer to (TOTAL GUESS) maybe 10%.
If that is tha case, the spectrums of LED lights should easity be able to match the effects of sunshine for growing. So, what I have done is use a regular light meter. On the MH and HPS I get a reading of about 9 right at the bulb. (Sunshine gives a 9 also) T-5's give a 7-7.5 touching the bulb. It doesnt take too much distance before the numbers drop below the intensity I think I need. With T-5's produicing maybe 50% usable light (another guess. I will do more research.) then that means I should be able to get simular results with the LED lights even when the reading on the light meter is half because all the light is usable.
Here are the readings I get at
12", = 8.75 almost 9
18", = 8.5
24", = 8
and 30", = 7.5
When I check the foot print using this method I get a solid 8 for a 2x2 and a 7.5 for a 3x3. (Note: The lights are only 16" above the screen and that is where I took measurements).
Since the readings are made up of only the good spectrums, I suspect nunbers as low as the 7.5 at 30" should be twice as effective as the T-5's @ 1". Looks like that will be part of my test of the lights. My plan is to keep the light no more than 24" from the lowest canopy and about 16" for the closest to the light. If everything directly under the lights do well then I will have to say the minimum PAR should be the 644. If plants outside that 24" distance stretch or otherwise dont look as good as those directly underneath, then 644 PAR watts will be the determining factor for the depth of canopy to bottom of under growth to. If 12' is the minimum distance from light to canopy, then you are left with only 12" of optimal growth distance. I hope the results show that 644 PAR is more than enough. I am hoping for as low as 400 PAR to be sufficitnt.
#5
I am growing seeds this time. I have cloned varities I liked as I found them. A friend of mine raved about some weed he gets from a dispensary. It has a few seeds in every purchase. (Probably hermaphrodite)
He is unable to grow so we are going to split the cost and I am going to grow his seeds. The seeds are mostly a sative hybred of Green Crack and Blue Dream. Some where there is Northern Lights. My Seeds that I crossed Kryptonite and Sour Deisel which also has Northern Lights in its back ground. So, I am going to pick the best male (maybe one of each) and polinate a bud on every female. Then, as I am doing now, I will take clones in case one of the plants is out standing. Someday it will happen again. When I was younger, 30 years ago, me and as it happens, the guy I am doing the grow with this time, planted 20 plants in hydro. Long story short, one of the plants was unbelievably good. Best ever. I know people say that alot but I am a very experienced smoker and many people wouldn't smoke any after trying it once because it was true 1 hit, sit you down, put you to sleep weed.
#6
I usually lean towards indica dominant hybreds which finish at about 8 weeks from going to 12/12.
With sativa dominant plants I hope they will finish im 10 weeks.
#7
I do not perpetual harvest. I would like to but I have had problems with spider mites over and over which makes me go berzerk and clean everything and start over. They will never be a problem again for me. I found that lemon oil will kill the mites and their eggs while doing hardly any damage to the plants. 1 Application seems to do the job but I used it twice to make sure.
Anyway, I use the lights for full cycle, then maintain mother plants until I take clones for the next crop.

Welcome GrowTest58!

Looking good so far. I like the enthusiasm!

For spider mites, I've had really good outcomes with neem oil products. I have also had great results from spinosad products, namely Monterrey's formula. I haven't tried this stuff on spider mites, but it killed thrips in 1-2 applications. It's supposedly so non-toxic that you can drink the concentrate, so I use it as a preventative measure on all of my young plants. Haven't had an insect problem since.

Good luck and keep up the good work!

P.S. I recommend waiting until your LED turns off to take pics. You can see in my journal that lights-out pics are highly valued.

GrowTest58 wrote:Good evening,
The details in the first post were my effort to answer possible questions people might have. Once I started I couldnt stop. I must admit I am excited both for the expectation of excellent results and for having this forem to give my opinion.

Anyway, I am thinking it goes something like this.
I have read that sunshine is about 5,000 lumins. If there about 20 lumins per watt. that would mean sunshine is 280w sq.ft. ???? WOW I am probably on the wrong track already. Anyway, since sun light is supposidly 23% blue 64w @ 400-500 nm, 26" Green 72w @ 500-600 nm, 26% Red 72w @ 600-700 nm and the last 25% is far red 70w @ 700-800 nm and the percentage of each spectrum that is utilized by plants puts the actual watts at closer to (TOTAL GUESS) maybe 10%.
If that is tha case, the spectrums of LED lights should easity be able to match the effects of sunshine for growing. If everything directly under the lights do well then I will have to say the minimum PAR should be the 644. If plants outside that 24" distance stretch or otherwise dont look as good as those directly underneath, then 644 PAR watts will be the determining factor for the depth of canopy to bottom of under growth to. If 12' is the minimum distance from light to canopy, then you are left with only 12" of optimal growth distance. I hope the results show that 644 PAR is more than enough. I am hoping for as low as 400 PAR to be sufficitnt.

#7
I do not perpetual harvest. I would like to but I have had problems with spider mites over and over which makes me go berzerk and clean everything and start over. They will never be a problem again for me. I found that lemon oil will kill the mites and their eggs while doing hardly any damage to the plants. 1 Application seems to do the job but I used it twice to make sure.
Anyway, I use the lights for full cycle, then maintain mother plants until I take clones for the next crop.

All honest feedback is appreciated here...

I wouldn't put too much into par nor lumens, I've found that what matters is results. I prefer g/w rather than grams per plant but everyone is different.

I've never heard of people using lemon oil; like beefxer I've used neem oil. If you're getting them indoors you might want to investigate where they're getting in from. Prevention beats treatment.

beefxer wrote:Welcome GrowTest58!

P.S. I recommend waiting until your LED turns off to take pics. You can see in my journal that lights-out pics are highly valued.

Valued and appreciated...

Good Evening SME,

The interest I have in the PAR value is for future reference. Like you say, it is the results that count. Even though the quality wasn't the best with T-5's, I was getting about 2 oz. per plant. With 6 plants I would get 12oz or more. Total watts of T-5 light was 972. 12oz. is 336g. Less than 1/2g per watt. Not so good. I wish you had never told me about that method.... My method was always grows as much as I can, then smoking to my hearts content.
As for using lemon oil, it can be tricky. First it doesn't mix very well with water. So you have to mix it in an over sized container like the plastic gallon of milk first. I used 1 tsp/gal but I think maybe half that will do. Only mix 1 quart in the milk jug at a time and then use in a mister sprayer immediately before the oils separate from the water. Spray everything until it is dripping wet. I have even used lemon oil after 5 weeks of flower and had no problems. Anyway, exposure to sunshine seems to have a bad effect of sativa's, indica's take the treatment much better. Either way, if the plants get shade for maybe 2 days, then they are ready to resume full sunshine. Which ever treatment I have used, I mark a branch with bugs so I can keep track of the effectiveness of the treatment. Lemon oil is cheap and organic so I hope it's ok to use.
For pictures I will either turn off the lights and hook up a T-5 or I will see how just the flash works. I took a video of the room and all but when I tried to watch it on the computer, it changed display properties and I was never able to see the video. So now I am trying to use an old camera that does video but the battery goes dead after less than 1 min. So I will probably be posting more pict's and less video.. Thanks to "beefxer" for the recommendation.

I feel that par and lumens are more like marketing data than a useful measurements but if that's the data that you want to use don't let my own personal opinion stop you. You know what they say about opinions...

Yeah, you're not the first one that wished that I never talked about grams per watt but the key to maximizing g/w, for any given light, is to have enough watts per sqft. Fluorescent lights like the T5's may never hit the 1g/w that HPS lights can far exceed; LED is getting close to that mark but only when the w/sqft are higher than virtually every manufacturer suggests. CLW suggests 40w/sqft in flower but I've found that 50+w/sqft (similar to HID specs) will get growers closer to that benchmark. You'll see that beefxer is testing his light with over 60w/sqft and I think he'll like the results if he keeps the other factors in check and if his genetics can produce big numbers. Only a few more weeks before we see how his journal finishes, IIRC.

Of course there is more to well tuned grows than just lighting but if you have enough w/sqft at least the lights are pretty close. That's one less thing that will need to be tweaked to get the most out of a particular grow and it's a pretty easy one to fix. Then again, there are a lot of people that just say "good enough" without thinking about what they "could" get but given a choice I think everyone would prefer "more" than "less." If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, growing is part science and part art and virtually every growing decision we make has pros and cons.

Neem oil is also organic but if you like lemon oil and it's not hurting your plants then you should use whatever you're comfortable with.

Spinosad is also organic. It is derived from a bacteria that scientists found in a rum distillery in the Caribbean. It's supposed to be very safe stuff unless you're a soft shelled insect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinosad

PAR and Lumens are probably BS so the buyer believes he is getting "something". As I see it, unless PAR measurements omit the lesser used spectrums, the PAR value could be high and still be usless for growing.
Here is an experiment I did with my regualr light meter.
1. Unobstructed Full sunshine is about 9.2
2. Cover light sensor with leaf and I get about an 8.
That means only about 10% of the sunlight was absorbed by the leaf. Adding an additional leaf makes no difference.
3. Unobstructed SS400 at 12" is about 8.5
4. Cover sensor with leaf and I get close to 2.
I didnt use 2 leaves.

My vow is now to never again put up with "good enough". That was but is no longer my motto. Now I am striving to produce the best possible. First was my decision to use the Solar Storm lights."If I have to give additional light
to the plants for flower I will" Secondly, I have been studying every facet of cultivation I can. In doing so I have figured out why some of my grows worked better than others. This time its with temps 72-80 with RH of 40-55%.
I have tried neem oil also. So has a friend of mine and in both cased the mites were stuburn. They would keep showing up even after a week of spraying. The lemon oil has been the ticked for me. I used it on totally infested plants I had to move out side the grow room. One application devastated all bugs, then I sprayed the next day just to make sure I got them all. The plant finished with no bugs even though the plant was very sickly looking from the bugs.
Question. How common is it to have "double Serrations" on the leaves?

If you really want to maximize results you may want to consider testing hydroponics sometime. There are many types of hydroponics that range from simple to complicated and some are higher maintenance than soil but it's hard to beat the results of well tuned hydro. Perhaps I'll start another LTA for hydro vs soil so people can debate/discuss different styles and their pros and cons.

Leaf variations happen, I've never noticed that double serration variation before but I've seen other mutations like single tips, 3 tips, 7 tips and my favorite; polyploid plants that had three sets of leafs instead of two sets. Keep an eye on it and see how it turns out...