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Autos under the 440SS-stressssed

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:51 am
by Xylem
Check it out.

This journal is starting near the end of the line. My second grow. Auto grows. The first's journal is posted somewhere below. It was 2 Dwarfs that did ok till I stepped in to start trouble. They did finish and my yield was better than I deserved. I proceeded to compromise the crop further by overdrying and now they are still jarred with 62% Bovedas, functionable.

This second crop has had problems out the kazoobs. I will portray them. Others have seen the wounded warriors but apparently there's no clear explanation: cause, remedy. Deficiency, toxicity. Overwater, underwater? PH. Water quality, soil ph. Lighting (say it ain't so CLW).

I call it Grow #2. Started Sept 15th. 3 Vision Seeds Northern Lights and 1 Buddha Seeds White Dwarf, seeds from the order received late last winter. Thoroughly watered with 6.5 water 3 gallon containers filled with Happy Frog soil/perlite mixed 3 parts to 1. All 4 seeds soaked in water for 17 hrs and planted in pots Sept 16. 36 hrs later the 3 NLs showed one with hull in tow. Day after the WD shows. All good.

Re: Autos under the 440SS-stressssed

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:11 am
by Xylem
Day 20 of the grow. What might these spots be?

Re: Autos under the 440SS-stressssed

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:23 am
by Xylem
Oc

Re: Autos under the 440SS-stressssed

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:28 pm
by rkymtnman
probably a cal/mg issue caused by some pH issues would be my guess.

i'd give them a good flush with just pH'd water around 6.2 for a day or two to get things back under control.

your soil probably has nutes in it so I'd go easy on your nutes. and never ever never go by the dosage on the nute bottles. it's usually way too strong. do you have any cal/mg additives when you do get ready to feed again?

i only did soil once and couldn't wait to get back to hydroponics. too much of a mystery of what was going on in the dirt for my liking.

Re: Autos under the 440SS-stressssed

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:59 pm
by Xylem
Thanks that reply. The grow is way older than that now. About day 67 auto grow. The symptoms morphed way beyond cal defic looking spots. I'll show you a pix farther along and one very recent. I've heard every possible explanation under the sun so I'm not expecting the solution. If you or anyone knows what these plants are experiencing please lay it on me,

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Re: Autos under the 440SS-stressssed

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:11 pm
by Xylem
Recent pix look like within this reply. There's the one White Dwarf and 2 Northerns. You can tell them apart. There's been profuse defoliation esp the dwarf which is near naked. While leaves have wilted and fallen throughout the Northerns look like there is some foliage hanging on the lower parts. The tops are just brown remains. There is almost a visible line of demarcation about halfway up above which they are denuded. Is this symptomatic of anything? Is there any chance led light toasts the tops? (I've never had the light too close. Never within 18 inches. Haven't used the uvb light at all. Figure enough stress. I can address grow details but will mention:

Happy Frog w/extra perlite
well water
T5 then the 440 20/4 schedule.
Dyna-Gro nutes.

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Re: Autos under the 440SS-stressssed

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:39 pm
by asuekim1
Calmg?? nutes,boron?manganese? all produce spotty leaves, none I have seen so severe. Appears they recovered decent. Nice grow.., I have had issues with the proximity of the light, so 8-12 inches is the closest I let it get, When they were in veg 2 of 3 got really green and I had all kind of nute issues, so I dropped to plain water (DWC) and feed them every other day adding approx 100 ppm tds GH nutes and calmag. My R/O auto adds Calmg and the light really is signifigant, I think with the 440 less is more, .

Re: Autos under the 440SS-stressssed

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:03 am
by Xylem
asuekim1 wrote:Calmg?? nutes,boron?manganese? all produce spotty leaves, none I have seen so severe. Appears they recovered decent. Nice grow.., I have had issues with the proximity of the light, so 8-12 inches is the closest I let it get, When they were in veg 2 of 3 got really green and I had all kind of nute issues, so I dropped to plain water (DWC) and feed them every other day adding approx 100 ppm tds GH nutes and calmag. My R/O auto adds Calmg and the light really is signifigant, I think with the 440 less is more, .


Sorry, man. I don't know the hydro lingo. What does R/O auto adds Calmag mean? You have a reverse osmosis machine that automatically adds calmag?

Yeah, the plants were hit pretty hard by something. I can't imagine I precipitated it even given a lack of experience growing this species. It started barely a week in. I am interested in your comment about the light, less is more. Think it can burn? And on that note why do you think at this stage the tops are totally burnt, still some foliage lower down? (I'd like to come away with some piece of knowledge from this struggle)

Re: Autos under the 440SS-stressssed

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:50 am
by rkymtnman
yikes!

probably too late to fix anything now.

how soon until you harvest?

looks like you had a few things going on: pH, nute burn, cal/mg deficiency.

can you answer a few things:

what was the pH of the water you were feeding with?
what was the ppm/EC of the nute solution you were feeding?
did you ever just flush them with pH'd water during the grow?
were you using just nutes and water? any other additives?
what were your temps and humidity levels?

not light burn if you they were only 18" away from the LED.

figure out what was wrong and correct for the next grow and you should be OK

Re: Autos under the 440SS-stressssed

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:54 pm
by Xylem
rkymtnman wrote:yikes!

probably too late to fix anything now.

how soon until you harvest?

looks like you had a few things going on: pH, nute burn, cal/mg deficiency.

can you answer a few things:

what was the pH of the water you were feeding with?
what was the ppm/EC of the nute solution you were feeding?
did you ever just flush them with pH'd water during the grow?
were you using just nutes and water? any other additives?
what were your temps and humidity levels?

not light burn if you they were only 18" away from the LED.

figure out what was wrong and correct for the next grow and you should be OK


I tend to agree that there may be more than one thing going on. But such a reaction. I don't know where to start. Too complex and nothing jumps out. Just eliminating the light as a culprit would be getting somewhere. I'll take your pov on that.

In short:
what was the pH of the water you were feeding with? I was putting in about 6.6

what was the ppm/EC of the nute solution you were feeding? Not something I monitor in an organized way. But there may have been a span when I over fed starting somewhere around the start of week 3. Dyna-Gro Protekt, Grow, MagPro, and briefly KLN a root stimulator. Now as I review the water log what jumps out is that early on, between Oct2 and Oct 19th I watered 5 times adding nutes 4 times which seems like way too much. And this occurred because the plants weren't getting real dry till almost a week in between and I thought they should be fed weekly (or else how do I stick to a feeding schedule?) When it looked like I was overbaking I switched to 11 days just water and have since fed more lightly. Truth is I would never have fed that much if not directly advised by Dyna-Gro's rocket scientist. I was reluctant.

did you ever just flush them with pH'd water during the grow? Oct 27th I started scrutinizing ph more closely. I put in 6.7 and got runoff 5.4. I used a soil probe and measured soil ph 4.8. Responding to the 4.8 ph I water flushed and later top dressed with Dolomite lime.


were you using just nutes and water? any other additives? Nutes and that Protekt stuff. A silica product it's supposed to protect against pests, heat you name it. I have to wonder if using these things is playing Russian roulette.

what were your temps and humidity levels? I don't control them. Sept 26th 79*/54%, Oct 19th 73*/65%, Nov 8th 68-73*/31-69% and so on.

Figure out what went wrong is a pipe dream. Not within my job description. I've bounced it off the "professionals" and heard almost EVERYTHING. Until last week when someone threw thrips in the picture. Another expert of course and he's positive. Except I'm pretty positive it's not. And I went so far as to get those sticky blue strips which thrips love to fly into except there's not one thrip on them so....

Look, forget the history. Check out this one observation: The grow is in its later stages and they need water only every 5-6 days. My first grow it was every 2-3 days. Now look at the latest pictures of the Northerns and notice that the foliage as it is is lower plant, everything up top is burnt out. The Dwarf has no leaves. And they aren't drinking much? Do we have anything here? Hint: is there an issue with the root system? (nobody came up with this one so I will).

I even got the fungus in the soil story.
http://www.ilovegrowingmarijuana.com/ma ... -septoria/
Almost looks like a match. I like that one. Just ditch the soil.

Comments welcome as usual.